Turning Adversity into Advocacy: A Conversation with Puneet Singhal on Building Inclusive Communities

Have you ever felt defined by your limitations? Our guest in this episode, Puneet Singhal, certainly has. Growing up with a stammer, he knows firsthand what it's like to feel different, misunderstood, and judged. But instead of letting this define him, Poonit turned his adversity into advocacy, founding SSStart and becoming a global ambassador for Billion Strong. He's turning heads, challenging societal assumptions and working towards normalizing stammering as a disability. 

In the journey of SSStart, you'll discover the power of community and resilience. Even with limited resources, this organization has managed to make a significant impact and build a strong community of empowered individuals. But this isn't just about stammering; it's a broader conversation about inclusivity and acceptance, celebrating our differences rather than fighting against them. The goal? A truly inclusive world.

What happens when we replace competition with collaboration? When we trade a scarcity mindset for a growth mindset? Puneet Singhal shares his insights on the importance of partnerships in the disability and charitable sectors. He paints a picture of how connecting with international networks has helped spread the word about their cause. And we discuss the power of community in enabling SSStart to grow and thrive. So, tune in, get inspired, and join the conversation on challenging societal perceptions and empowering individuals with disabilities. This is a story of resilience, empowerment, and community support you won't want to miss.

Chapters

• 0:01 Empowering Disability Advocacy and Community Support
• 13:14 Building Inclusive Communities and Resisting Division
• 19:39 Collaboration and Partnership for Social Impact
• 34:39 Empowering Volunteers and Building Community

Transcript

0:00

AXSCHAT Puneet Singhal

NEIL: 0:01

Hello and welcome to Axschat, as the traffic comes blazing past Puneet's window. I'm delighted we have Puneet Singhal here today. He's a glow worm for Billion Strong. He's extremely active on social media posting some great wisdom on disability and life and attitudes, on channels like LinkedIn and also the CEO and founder of Ssstart with three S's. So, Puneet, can you tell us more about yourself, a bit about Ssstart and then maybe we'll go back and hear a bit more about your story and how this all came about?

PUNEET: 0:44

Well, first of all, thank you so much Neil, Antonio and Debra for having me. I've been chasing Debra for a long time to be on Axschat and I would say that like I will start like from where did I see the problem because there was a lot of organisations that were already working here. But I see how they were romanticising poverty and how they were glorifying and selling our poverty and you know all this, taking our pictures and making me feel disgusted. And I wanted to take up the ownership of agency of you know, of being a founder of not being a kind of a voice in the community and in the world as well that we are, maybe, maybe we are lacking in resources but we are not poor. We have a very strong sense of culture. We have a very strong sense of community and we are coming from a country which is far more richer and far more civilised, in whatever way we want to consider this because we lack in realistic resources, we are not poor. So, with this mindset, I started this organisation to provide an alternating solution, alternating voice to the community, especially for the disability community, where you know, me as a person who stammers, our voice is very particular to us. Voice is not only that voice. Voice for us, is something else as well. Because it's literally and in metaphor particular terms as well. Because we were actually having block. We are actually having a lot of restrictions when we talk. And even in another sense when we are not allowed to talk. When we are believed that we are not heard. That makes whole lot of sadness, a whole lot of you know, that sense of that we don't belong and there's sense of that volume, between the people who have who are actually taking the seasons who know that, we know what you need and this is more disgusting thing again, that I can hear that they know, what we want. So, I think that is like the idea to take up the ownership.

NEIL: 3:24

Okay, so I think that people don't really appreciate or think of stammering and stuttering as a disability and yet, clearly it impacts on how people you know, progress in life, communication is such an important thing and there is such prejudice against stammering and yet, people don't treat it like it's a disability. So, I think it's a really interesting and tricky situation that you're addressing here. But I also think that some of the content that you're putting out is really, really good. So, you know, thinking about how we can centralise disability. So, you talked when disability is used a neutral term then we shift away from the idea of overcoming it and that goes into the idea of inspiration porn and people making decisions about you, without you and I think, I thank you for being able to give voice to the community and really to challenge the assumptions that people are making. So, really I think that Ssstart is a great idea. And I think the work that you are doing is really important. So, thank you for that. So, can you tell us a little bit more about the organisation Ssstart. Obviously, I now fully appreciate why it's a Ssstart with 3S's, at the beginning of Ssstart. But yes, can you tell us a bit more about the actual organisation itself.

PUNEET: 5:19

Yes, so we are based in two centres, one is in Durga, the other is in Qutub. They are both south and west part of Delhi, in what we can call slum. And we are a bunch of youngsters. We gather in a space, we try to enjoy ourselves instead of thinking what people are thinking of us or instead of like bothering ourselves with all of these you know, burden that we sometimes put on ourselves because of our disabilities. So, most of my participants are disabled and all of them are from the slums and I make sure that there are enough girl representation in the centre. And, the whole purpose is just to enjoy ourselves because even in our schools and in our colleges, we are you know, always in this zone, you know, to meet up and expectations. So, here there is in space where there are no expectations. If you want to come and sleep, you can sleep. It's your space, I'm not, I'm just a founder. But I have been very lucky that my participants have been taking the ownership of whatever has been done in the centre. And my only focus is to normalise standard or normalise any other disabilities is to not think of the disability as a deficit of thinking of disability as very objective sense, what we call the social model of disability and also, I would say that when I look back in time, I was always like feeling a bit of I would say, weird, because everyone used to look at me and say, no this is enough, this is enough of a delicate person. Like, my father was an alcoholic, so all my life, I was just fighting against that you know, I'm not my father, I'm not my father, I'm much beyond that. There is not trying to get the validation of the people and just trying to address the trauma and the insecurities that my father has given to me. Like, the harms that he has done to my mother and me. So, yes, I think that was, that this is where is it started. I wanted to build something. I wanted to do something in my life just to prove people wrong. But now, there is not that case. I've actually grown out of that trauma, that need to prove myself.

NEIL: 8:38

That makes good sense. I think Debra is having a slight connection problem. I think she'll be back in a second. She is back.

DEBRA: 8:51

Apologies, I wasn't sure what happened. But apparently we lost our Internet connection. I'm at the library. So, I was thinking it might be you Puneet, being in, no, no it's in the States for sure. Yes, nope, it's us. Sorry about that. So, sorry I accidentally fell off. But Puneet something you said, I just love, love, love how you presented the information and I've read a lot of your work and I love the work you are doing at Ssstart. And one thing I want to make sure that you answer for me is how are you funding this and how can we help get more people funding what you're doing, because I think it's very powerful. And I know your spreading the word in a lot of ways, including being an ambassador for Billion Strong, which we are grateful for. But I want to sort of move back to say how we romanticise poverty. And I just thought, you brought up, of course I've heard that before, but when you were talking about the strength that you have, the strength of community, the strength of culture the power of all that, and yet what you don't have is access to material things, which by the way, get those of us that do have access to, in trouble all the time. So, I just think it's just a powerful, powerful point, and I'm so proud of Axschat for featuring your voice on this because we actually need to find the rest of the Puneet's and make sure that we are including you in them. It feels like, as Neil said, nothing without about us but part of the problem is that many of the conversations that are being had, are for members of the opportunity like me. I do have to tell you, I'm a member of the community. I have ADHD, if you have met me you are going to figure it out real quick. But also, I'm a mother of a beautiful daughter with Down Syndrome. My wonderful late husband was part of the community with a traumatic brain injury. But I still have to tell you these things. And I think there is so much power in having Puneet speak for himself because I can speak for Puneet's, the issues he has and the lack of material but I cannot begin to do it real service and I think that is the value of these conversations. And I'll just say to you Puneet, when we first started the show, over ten years ago, we thought we are going to run out of topics. Well, that hasn't happened. So, now I think one hope that gives me hope is that you are joining the conversation to help us understand, nothing about us in a very different way and I was just wondering if you could talk about that a little bit. Because it's nothing without us but often, it must appear like, you are not even, that's one thing. Let me say it myself, instead of having you say it. My daughter has down syndrome and I remember a couple of times she wasn't eligible to be part of a programme because she was either too disabled or not disabled enough to make the programme and I remember, it sort of hurt my heart because I thought what? So, using that concept, Puneet I would just be curious, you know, what you can begin to teach all of us about making sure that it really is about all of us, not just some of us in the community. Sorry, for the long question.

PUNEET: 12:23

Thank you Debra. That's very good question because actually we are quantifying disability, which is very problematic, at so many levels. And as, President Biden has said, that stuttering is the only disability that people laugh about, which is pretty much, I would say correct because I've actually experienced that and not empathising with the challenges that we go on with our daily lives. I'm in touch with a lot of youngsters and oh God, I cannot think of what challenges they face, they are just living in isolation and it's like they, you know, from other part, that after telling a joke, in a very certain sound that's the first time that I'm telling a joke in my life. And I was so happy, like I don't want to do anything with my life, I've done for life, I don't want to do anything else in my life, I have done whatever I wanted to do. I was so happy in that moment. And that was it. So, I think these experiences, these small happiness, this is what starts tenfold because I've said a lot of no's. I've said no's to lot as well because some people would actually say, you have to listen to us, you have to follow us, what we are saying, in terms of bond, trusting the volunteers, all of these things which I don't agree as founder. So, I said no. I said no where the funding goes, we knew, we know the space very less. Like the space we are in, it is offered by a very loving couple. They absolutely love what we are doing. So, the space is free. We are just gathering this online, the online gathering that we do, fortunately, is the cheapest Internet and even the people who are delivering the margins like, are really less privileged, they can afford Internet. So, Ssstart, it's a very, I would say, actually working on no resources, actually working on no capital at all, and still they the impact that we are creating, I would say it's much more than most of the organisations and I will not ask, you know. In terms of funding, people come and they offer us. I don't want to ask. And the point is that if you do work. I believe in this thing that if you are doing the work. If you're providing the value to the people. And if you are visible enough then people and organisations will come and support you. And absolutely, there are more no's than yes because I do not want to be. I'm very opinionated. People think I'm just listening, I'm not saying much. But I don't just listen to people when it comes to my organisation and my people because I want to protect them at all costs. I do not want to sell the motive that inspiration porn again. I'm not selling that and we are not, we are not real people, all these participants, are doing amazing, good work. You know, we have got doctors, we have lawyers, we have all of these things, that were actually raised from the bottom. You know, their journey itself is so like, I would say they are amazing kind of people and absolutely like, in awe, I have got messages and a few of them starting their own businesses now. They are thinking they are starting their enterprise and that makes just like, let me know whatever I can do. They have to do remote areas; villages of India and their dreams are unlimited. So, I think that is what makes me go in without much of I would say capital and other kind of resources and from now, I'm really like, I have given myself a challenge that what we can do with also less resources and money, because first I want to build a community, a sense of belonging in all of the centre and thank you for that question, Debra.

ANTONIO: 16:58

So, if I am not mistaken, you stated that your goal is also to create a world that is truly inclusive. So, how do you believe individuals and communities can contribute to that goal?

PUNEET: 17:24

Right now, I would just, writing it, a comment on LinkedIn. A post on Trudy Singer's post. She has said something really transphobic and like, I really respect her, whatever she has done for the neurodiversity movement, I love all of these things. I follow her quite diligently. But the point is, is that you know, we cannot be selectively inclusive to one kind of people and we cannot selectively phobic against the other kind of people. So, one of my participants was actually commenting like that, on some post, that not why we don't have celebration of stammering on the like the Pride month, why we do not have some days for what is stammering or stuttering. I said to him very politely, I give him directional and that we are not fighting against each other, we are supporting each other. And there are days we can actually celebrate, stuttering or stammering as well. So, actually, that person deleted the comment and he said that you are right. And that makes me think you know that if I can talk to some person in private and actually give my logic that this is what we are not fighting against each other. We are not, it's not a zero-sum game that we are playing, it's all of us here. So, actually the person accepted that and delivered the comment. And I am thankful to him and really, really, really grateful that actually he listened because actually, in this era of social media can get really raw at times and we are just not listening. We are not type of fight on, fight on, fight on. But that's a moment that actually made me think that all of these communities, all of these groups of people that are fighting for inclusion that are assisting in the struggle for inclusion, why are they fighting against each other? And that why I'm always emphasising on as a team. Collaboration and partnership is really important. Even in the organisations that like an NGO's, we are actually competing, we are always in this organisation or this person is getting more visible, more recognition, more awards, all of these things. But actually, we are not sharing enough resources to amplify our impact.

NEIL: 20:05

So, I think that when you mentioned that it shouldn't be a zero-sum game that was a really incitive point. You know, clearly we see in the disability sector and in the charitable sector, the understanding of scarcity and we are a scarcity in the familiar mindset rather than in a building and sharing mindset because people are wanting to, they are afraid of the famine, they have experienced a lack of resources and so, the tendency is to want to grab those resources for their projects, their people, their needs. And when happens, it actually leads to both duplication, competition and it slows down our progress. So, collaboration, is always better than competition, when it comes to things like this. So, you know, I applaud you and I support you with that have sentiment because I think that when we build stuff together we are more than the sum of our parts. When we are competing, we are whatever division of the slice of whatever we can grab, we are. And, so by having that growth and collaboration mindset, you'll go further and the cause will go further and will touch the lives of more people. So, congratulations on recognising that and taking that part. I hope that more and more organisations realise that that is the most productive approach because, then, we can actually build things, proof that the money that is being invested that is available can go further and can generate more money and more benefits and that virtuous circle. So, you're right. It isn't -- it's a win, win game. Rather than a zero-sum game. We shouldn't always be trying to get one over on the other person. So, you gave a great example of that. Are you working with international stammering networks as well because I know there are stammering networks in business. So for example, EY, you know the big four consultancy, there is a guy in the UK, one of their partners, called Ian Wilkie, he set up their employee stammering network. So, I know you're doing collaborative work in India and, Southeast Asia, are you also working with some of these other organisations outside to help spread the word further?

PUNEET: 23:18

Yes, sure. Ian is a wonderful friend of mine and his voices, like the last year I was an interviewee in this like, in the news for the people who stammers. So last year I was interviewee and this year I am an interviewer, I got an opportunity to interview four youngsters, who stammers and they were across the globe. One was from Nigeria, the other one was from India, one girl was from Australia. So, I think I got an opportunity to volunteer and spend time with Stammer as well, British stammering association and, as I say, National Stuttering Association from the States, I think I know that these people have really helped me, supported me. I've been on their Podcast as well. They have actually published my applicant, whatever they are do, they are doing it for me and that's kind of, you know, I would say that the network I have built and by network, I know that we don't, but this professional building of network, but when I say network, I say that's a personal connection. You know that I can ask for favour any time. And they can ask for favour any time from me. And that's what it takes. You know, where people are without any hesitancy. They are asking for help and they are actually listening to what I need. So, I think we are, I'm pretty much connected across these networks.

NEIL: 25:11

Excellent. And, I think sometimes people think of social media and social networking as something trivial where you go to, you know, share pictures of yourself and you know, brag or whatever. But we know, through the work we have done on Axschat that it's also an opportunity to make connections and to move the agenda forwards. And that you know, the networking is extremely important for finding people that can take out the cause, that can support you but also there is a generosity out there, in the network where yes, there is reciprocities so people are giving stuff and they are taking stuff back. So, people are giving and receiving and that helps build. But I don't think there is sort of the expectation that everything has to be given just with the expectation of receiving. There is a generosity, amongst the disability community on social networks, where people are willing to share, willing to give. Is that something that you recognise?

PUNEET: 26:40

Neil, this is the hope. I think this is the optimism, that makes me go in because there is a lot of I would say, the occupation is that when you work for social impact, when you work for what we call bring some change in the community, it's really, like, it's really tough on your mental health. Like, it's sort of, you know, I even it is like, I was thinking that you know, I need a break. After three months or four months, I just need a break. But, why I want to come back and pursue this thing again because this is the hope. These are the sum few people not that really makes me, okay. This struggle, this resistance is worthy of whatever effort that I'm putting in and that and that is and as I linked on the one hand that you are actually breeding and exhausting but these are the things that makes me giving me an idea and giving me that push that kick that I always wanted to have.

NEIL: 28:01

Yes, indeed. So, actually on a post recently on social media, talking about the exhaustion of working as an advocate and so on and it's something that I think we all feel from time to time because not only are you dealing with your own disabilities which require effort but then you've got the advocacy on top and the resistance to that and yes, it is exhausting and I think a lot of us, a lot of people in accessibility and advocacy experience the risk of burnout. At the same time, the community does wrap its arms around you and support you when you start talking about this stuff and the reactions to the posts around the energy, required. I think we're really telling. So, I think there is some, a community of care out there as well that and support, that you know, we wouldn't have had if it weren't from social media because that support doesn't come from the people next door or the people down the street, it comes from all over the world and that's something I really hate. So, I think we completely lost Debra. She is suffering from first world problems and Wi Fi issues you know. So, what are the sort of things that you're planning? What are your next plans for Ssstart? And the campaign that you're running?

PUNEET: 29:51

Yes, Neil, thank you so much for this question. But before that you know, I would love to like address whatever like you were saying about this thing. So, you know about exhaustion and you know about this bringing of energy when we do and when we are an advocate for change. Like, the last few months, I've been really reading a lot, and doing a lot of reflection and a lot of meditation, all of these self-care, things that whatever I need to do and that makes me play this maths game because I got, whenever I get a negative comments, whenever I get a negative feedback on my work, it really puts me down and I actually forget that it is one person or two person of the total comments that I'm receiving. So, I'm playing a mathematics game that I'm focusing more on these 99 other good feedbacks and actually, I'm thinking of that feedback as well. Whatever the people are saying, I take criticism very rationally but I'm not trying to like, go on because, in last year, in July because of some argument or some misunderstanding from their side, it took a toll on my mental health. Actually, I had to go to a retreat to actually recover from that. So, now I'm playing PR mathematics game. I'm actually, I'm reading good comments whenever any negative comment is coming on my post or whenever people is calling me or whatever that's. I also read very good, pleasant one as well and that is really important. And, about Ssstart, like I was just building, like I'm 27 years old and you know, I've addressed my insecurities, my trauma of you know of poverty, of domestic violence of bullying and all of these things. And now, I can say I've built some kind of platform. And now, I want to build something very concrete and that will be my community and whatever support I can provide to my participants in terms of educational support and also like through getting in touch with the other organisations for jobs because, I believe that economic freedom is really important. It's not everything because most of the people say it's not everything but it is a big part of empowering our youngsters. So, that is my goal is to provide value to these participants.

ANTONIO: 33:01

I was considering what type of question, I was asking to ask you to end and I was really going to this place of community but then I realised I think it's better if we end, if you could share about us, somewhat how you call standout moments of success that you might think you've achieved?

PUNEET: 33:26

Okay, so there was this earthquake in Turkey and they, as I said the areas of Syria. So, what our volunteers are doing, our girl volunteers are collecting workshops to teach simple and plain English to the hearing women and after that, earthquake we reached out to these women and we asked should we continue with our workshops and we were thinking we might have to stop that. And these women were saying these are the actual one hour that we are actually enjoying ourselves and we do not want to stop it. Just please continue with that. And it was that kind of feedback, you know that like, they are having some kind of problem, issues, their houses have been, all have been gone so, I think they need a break or something like that but they want to continue. And that shows that volunteers, my volunteers were really facilitating very engaging workshops with them and its amazing feedback. And now, and also, the other these volunteers, my participants were taking ownership and identity of the organisations. Sometimes I am falling back. I am taking things from the country but they are actually making follow up whatever the next week, what are we doing the next day. What is your next plan. So, I think it's such a good community. I have very over the last 10 months and specially to give them that power that you own this organisation. You own that space and take that responsibility and go on with that.

NEIL: 35:20

Excellent. Thank you. Power of community wins out, all the time. So, I need to thank our community and our friends at Amazon and My Cleartext, for keeping us on Air and captioned and for their support over the years. Really look forward to you joining us for the conversation on social media. Thank you so much Puneet, it's been a real pleasure talking to you.

PUNEET: 35:47

Thank you so much, Neil, Antonio and Debra, as well.