AXSChat Podcast with Megan Lawrence is the Sr. Accessibility Technical Evangelist at Microsoft

 Megan Lawrence is the Sr. Accessibility Technical Evangelist at Microsoft with 15 years of experience working with the disability community. Dr. Lawrence builds trusted relationships with customers, NGOs, and Assistive Technology partners to further Microsoft’s mission of empowering every person and organization to achieve more through the lens of inclusion. Megan works deeply with customers and the disability community to keep them up-to-date on the latest at Microsoft Accessibility including how we can partner with organizations to help build cultures of digital inclusion and how accessibility is the path to innovation.

Megan Lawrence 

Dr. Lawrence is the co-chair of the People with Mental Health Conditions discussion group within the Disability employee resource group at Microsoft. She leads the Accessibility User Research Collective (AURC), a partnership with the Shepherd Center, as a way to improve the accessibility of Microsoft products through feedback from people with disabilities. This project engaging the disability community to helps shape the future technology at Microsoft.

Outside of Microsoft, Megan is a board member of the TechSAge Rehabilitation Engineering Research Center focused on developing technology to support people aging-in-place for people living with long term disabilities, and the Rehabilitation Research and Training Center on Employment of People who are Blind or Have Low Vision. 

Transcript

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Neil Milliken: Hello and welcome to access chat. I'm absolutely delighted today that we're joined with Megan Lawrence Megan is

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Neil Milliken: Senior accessibility evangelist at Microsoft over in Redmond

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Neil Milliken: Happy to be working with with both her and her Yang. The hugging or the egg into your Yang. I'm not sure. Hector as well. So who's well known to the community and this side of the world. I think we're probably triggering Hector right now going to poke him a bit more

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Neil Milliken: Because you've beaten him on to access chat. So it's great to have you with us. We're going to cover off a topic that means a lot. Both

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Neil Milliken: To me to Deborah and our audience today, which is mental health. So Megan. Can you tell us a little bit more about your role in Microsoft and the work that you're doing on on mental health.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Yeah. So first of all, thank you so much for having me here today and I'm not gonna lie, that I am quite pleased that I have beaten Hector at something

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Finally, which is access chat. So yes, I will be pinging him later, this, this, this afternoon. But in addition to being the, the senior accessibility evangelist.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Working for our chief accessibility officer here and really thinking about how we bring on technology.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, to reduce the barriers of for people with disabilities. I'm also the co lead of employees with mental health conditions through our disability RG

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And I take a very, very active role and how we build community around mental health and it couldn't be more important given the the times that we're living in today. Yeah.

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Neil Milliken: Absolutely. The

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Neil Milliken: The last 10 months have been incredibly

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Neil Milliken: Wearing and stressful for a lot of people, and we've taken pretty much everyone outside of their comfort zone and and so I think that

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Neil Milliken: We haven't yet really come to terms with the, the size of the effects that we're going to be feeling from this because I think they're going to be long term. So, what what a Microsoft doing in in space.

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Neil Milliken: Supporting people remotely and supporting people's health.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Yeah, actually I kind of

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: I kind of want to talk a little bit about like

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Neil Milliken: What we're seeing from a current statistics. Yeah, that'd be great.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You're completely correct that health officials are saying that we are in a historical wave of mental health concerns right now for people, whether that's a folks that are coming

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Neil Milliken: To have mental health symptoms for the

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Very first time and maybe don't have the vocabulary to talk about it and are really in this phase of self discovery or whether that's folks like myself who have

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Lived with an anxiety disorder for many, many years. And I just see that my anxiety and burnout those cycles are coming more quickly and the self care has actually had to really change for me.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: I know that this is an international audience, but I do want to talk about one statistic here in the US because they think it's just so telling

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Which is the Center for Disease Control reports this household pulse. So in January 2019 8% of the American population reported having symptoms of globalized or generalized anxiety disorder GAD

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Last month 36.5% of the American population reported having symptoms of anxiety. So if we look at just that one mental health condition and we recognize that this is a very significant role that is playing out in in all of our lives right

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Neil Milliken: Absolutely.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so when we really look at, at what what Microsoft is doing, you know it's it's a it's a multi pronged approach.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: One is, is really making sure that we're telling stories. I mean, the best way to reduce bias and stigma is through storytelling.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so having people at our company stand up and say this is what a mental health condition like right a it's invisible. You can't tell that I necessarily have it. If I don't disclose it to you.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And this is you know what it's like to live with a mental health condition every day and it can absolutely be a strength and it can also be very difficult.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And I think being open and honest about those two those two pieces is really important and building the community around that. And that's really the piece.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know that I want to make sure that we're doing. People know they're not alone.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: This is completely normal. Given the times that we're in and that there are people that you can turn to whether what you need is just a chat.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know over teams over a cup of coffee, or whether we're bringing in people, you know,

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: psychiatrists and psychologists and people at the intersection ality of race and disability and mental health and gender and gender identity.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: To really discuss these topics. And then the last is really about a strategic approach for the entire company.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So we have put together the mental health. Working Group and steering committee, which is comprised of five very senior executives, we're really building out. How are we

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Going to approach mental health from a benefits perspective, from a technology perspective and from the way that we tell our stories every single day. And the way that we reach out to external community. So we really have those several pronged approach here.

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Debra Ruh: You know I'm continue to be very fascinated with all of the amazing work happening at Microsoft, and

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Debra Ruh: This is something that's very important. And to me, this topic. I also have an anxiety disorder and it's

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Debra Ruh: As you know, Megan, it's, it can be very difficult. It can be very difficult because I'm also a very positive person, but it's, it can be very difficult. And my mother had borderline

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Debra Ruh: Personality Disorder, which is very tough to live with and to live with as somebody that loves a person that has that and my sister has bipolar. And

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Debra Ruh: I don't think that makes my family broken. I just think it makes my family human, but I think something that I really admire you for is that you have been

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Debra Ruh: Willing to come out and talk about this because as you also said, you know, people are afraid. And we know that you will be discriminated against and we there are biased and there's

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Debra Ruh: So much confusion about our brains and how our brains work and how they tied to our body. And I also find that

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Debra Ruh: During this coven 19 crisis that goes on and on and on that, you know, the way I take care trying to stay balanced. I was going to use the word sane, but balanced is better word.

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Debra Ruh: It seems to have actually shifted. I'm having to be so much more deliberate, but from a personal perspective. I appreciate

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Debra Ruh: You being willing to stand up and say who you are, who Megan is across the board. I mean, bringing our entire true selves to work, I think is so empowering. I know that when Neil came out.

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Debra Ruh: He and he called it coming out and disclosing that he had dyslexia, at a time when people look at those words and assume that you're a broken person, which I look at those words and say, Oh, you're, you're human. Okay, but

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Debra Ruh: But at the same time taking it, then from the lens of a brand as big as Microsoft and really making sure that we

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Debra Ruh: Are looking at what is going to happen. I had not heard the statistic that you mentioned, but I have heard

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Debra Ruh: From some of the doctors that I follow in the United States say that there are still going to be so many cases of post traumatic stress disorder.

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Debra Ruh: And we do have to be prepared now to help and in the future. So I love that Microsoft is looking at how do we respond to this in a thoughtful meaningful way. And I also am glad that mental health as part of your disability RG group because

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Debra Ruh: I bit. A lot of the companies that I talked to, it is not. It is not being talked about still

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, I think many, many people around the world, both individuals and organizations were not totally prepared for how Kovac 19 and many other societal pressures.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Were going to result in mental health symptoms and mental health conditions. So, um, you know, I think that this is

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Actually an opportunity because for the first time, we're talking about it.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And that is something that I want to see. Absolutely. Carry on. We've got managers who are checking in with people and saying,

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: How are you doing, and they mean it and it's okay if you say, I'm really struggling today and that you can begin to think about, well, how do we create a work life balance plan that's going to work for you.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So, you know, in some senses, sometimes it takes this outside pressure to to create an environment in which we can really open up and begin to grow and I honestly believe that this is a time of growth.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And one of the things that you know I speak often about which I think it's important for people to recognize is that my disability is not my personality.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Right. So if you see me that, and I will be very honest with you when I'm having high anxiety. I won't control. I feel out of control. I want control. So I get rigid

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: What exactly is the deliverable when, you know, what's the KPI that I that I need to, you know, to meet. How do I know if I'm going to be successful. And I can seem very, very rigid

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so I often ask people if you see me acting in a way that is not, you know,

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: That is, unlike me please say something, say, is there something that I can do to help you.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Because I think one of the worst things is saying nothing and either just, you know, talking behind that person is back or thinking you know that person isn't meeting expectations or geez, I don't know if I can trust them anymore.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so that's one thing that I really want to get across to the audience, which is conversation is key. And remember past. Can I do something for you. Um, you know, because the way that we create cultures of inclusion is it's not mental health is not you know one individuals.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know what, no one individual can fix. You know the problem. It is actually a community. So, you know, the responsibility is on the entire company is on the entire team to build

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know cultures in which people feel like they're a psychological safety.

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Antonio Santos: Measures. You were mentioning about someone know asking about all you are but oh can you create a space where someone is is is able to go to you and say,

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Antonio Santos: How can I help you. Okay. Is anything I can do you have to create a space that people are sometimes people. Oh, that's not my business. I should just go, I just keep quiet. Are you create a space where people look confident on offering their help.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Yeah, it's a really great question. And I think this does come back to psychological safety, which is how are we creating senses of belonging.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: within our organizations. And I think that's where the community plays an important role and making sure that people know

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Like myself and Jenna Mira, who runs this community with me that we are always here we are always listening. In fact, we have a meeting every single week where people know that they can show up that they can ask us questions that they can feel

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: The support of the community. So first of all, that's, that's the number one thing I say is build that community. Let it be known, so that people know that there is a safe place for them, you know, to come and be

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And the second is, you know, just to be very open minded and, you know, don't assume that you can solve the problem, don't ever think that you can diagnose somebody with a behavioral health condition.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Instead just be open like you would with any colleague, if it seems like they're having a bad day and ask, hey, are you doing okay. Is there anything I can do.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: We would never second guess that if one of our colleagues was a new parents and seems like they were very tired because they had come to work and just wanted to reach out and let them know that we were there for them mental health conditions are very similar.

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Debra Ruh: I think that's such a great point. Megan in and I love the question that Antonio asked because

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Debra Ruh: I I try and I love your point to that, you know, it's not it's not about personality and I know that I have one of the one colleague specifically that I work with that.

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Debra Ruh: I never heard it mapped out the way you said it that if you see me getting rigid and I'm going to start asking questions.

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Debra Ruh: Because that's exactly what I do and I'm just, no thank you for explaining that to me, that's one thing I love about access chat. I often learn something about myself.

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Debra Ruh: But because that's exactly what I do and I have one colleague that

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Debra Ruh: I don't want people to know that I'm there at the time. I don't want people to know that I'm struggling, but he always can tell in almost always he'll call me. He won't deal

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Debra Ruh: He won't address it in a way that embarrasses me but he always calls me and it's like, how are you doing

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Debra Ruh: I can feel I can feel yourself just all I want. I just want you to know I love you and I'm there and how you doing, and he

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Debra Ruh: I just love that he does that, even though a lot of times, once again, I don't want people to know that I'm there and totally even though everybody knows on there but

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Debra Ruh: It's just such a very powerful point and how can we learn about ourselves, our co workers.

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Debra Ruh: In the employee everything if we don't have these really rich conversations. And so once again I know this is what you do and I don't want to embarrass you, but

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Debra Ruh: It's so important in what you're doing because this is how we change society and make it okay to be ourselves. And so I just

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Debra Ruh: I'm hoping you're actually come on my other show human potential at work and talk about this because people are really, really struggling right now. And even though here in the States, we're voting. We're, we're going to stop voting Tuesday at 7pm Pacific time

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Debra Ruh: And we're going to be done there. But that doesn't mean that we're done with the stress and the

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Debra Ruh: You know the pandemic and everything else. And so I I know that for a while I was just bracing myself. It was almost like maybe if I hold my breath through this, I can get through it between

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Debra Ruh: What was happening with my husband worried about my daughter, am I going to get sick. Oh, my employees grandparents are dying. Whoops. One of them just got exposed to coven 19 by caregiver.

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Debra Ruh: It is so intense for all of us. It's. And then, of course, social media makes it more intense and

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Debra Ruh: So I just think that these times. It's so important and be having these conversations but having them from the conversations of a large corporation with all those employees.

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Debra Ruh: That gives me hope. So I really, really appreciate what you're doing and it, but I don't see a lot of companies.

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Debra Ruh: Exploring it but maybe I'm missing. Missing that. Do you see that companies are really, really, you know, taking this more seriously. And I know Neil wants to make a comment too. But let me give it to you and Neil all give it the mic to you afterwards.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, in fact, many organizations have really robust programs, most of the time they're in the benefit space, right. How do we really support people through the ability to provide the kind of

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Care, whether that's therapy or other types of medical care.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And and I have seen several organizations. I'm just going to call out Starbucks, because I am in the Pacific Northwest.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: They've made some some new commitments around mental health. And so I think companies really are beginning to step up and take this very, very seriously.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: But to be honest with you, I think it's a journey like anything else and accessibility rate we are on a journey and we're beginning to understand how we think about this talk about this. We put programmatic and you know systems in place to really, really support people

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Neil Milliken: As an organization. Another large organization. We also mindful of the need to

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Neil Milliken: cater for the health and mental health.

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Neil Milliken: Of our employee. So we've we've done the sort of

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Neil Milliken: employee assistance programs. We do all of that and but we also have activities like like with Microsoft. In fact, the call that I was on before this was with the leadership group of our

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Neil Milliken: Adapt er G and we have a mental health lead there and we have mental health first aid is. We also have, and I think this is this is something that I really like and I can't claim credit for. We have a an allies network.

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Neil Milliken: And not only is the network, but there's also training that goes along with it. So you get, you know, again, a bit like you've done with the

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Neil Milliken: The badging for accessibility fundamentals within Microsoft you gamma phi gaming. The process of and encouraged people to get it.

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Neil Milliken: People have got, you know, sort of collateral for their avatars, which is sort of we are allies of Halo to go around.

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Neil Milliken: They're, they're sort of avatars for social media and for stuff at work. So it's encouraging people to learn about how to be there for their colleagues and I think that this is this is

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Neil Milliken: Really nice because you don't always want to ring the employee assistance program might not know where the number is, you might not even be aware

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Neil Milliken: Right, that there is this stuff in place with lots of companies have all of these things. And all of these benefits, but people don't know about.

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Neil Milliken: Or they don't know how to access them. And when you're in that moment of stress is even harder to access them. So, so having people where there's a visible.

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Neil Milliken: indicator that they care and that they've had some training and that they're available for you. I think is, is really nice, but I'm also aware that

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Neil Milliken: We've talked a lot about the human aspects but but you and I both work for technology companies and access chat also likes to talk about tech

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Neil Milliken: And I know that that you're doing stuff around mental health, mental well being. Tech in terms of sort of things like personal Analytics. So I'd love you to tell us a bit more about that.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Yeah, absolutely. I just want to comment on the analysis ship because Alice ship is incredibly important.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: As we think about the way that we support people and you know I trained accessibility subject matter experts, you know, as part of my job. And oftentimes, you know,

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Getting a badge or taking a course can get you only so far, you have to do accessibility, you have to talk about accessibility right

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so I think the same is really true of inclusion. It's like, how are we as organizations empowering people to engage and I think that that's something that the the communities in the ER geez are so

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Good. And it's such an important component. Take that Alisha training and put it into action, go and

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, go and sit and have a conversation and listen within the you know the different communities at Microsoft, we you know we have the blacks at Microsoft, we have Ola, which is the Spanish group.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: We have many different organizations glean um so I encourage people to begin to learn about each other because that's the best way to really practice Alice ship.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Um, but, uh, but technology that's, that's one of my favorite things is talking about. So let's talk about tech

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Um, and, you know, you think, for me, it gives me in, you know, the I've been working from home since March.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And it is so incredibly easy to roll over, first thing I do is I look at my phone in fact 30% of us look at our phones, before we ever get out of bed.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: I'm one of them. Sometimes I'm right and rate and in fact 70 I think it's like 78% of us check emails after hours like we're just constantly on rate.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And so we really have to make an intentional exercise of disconnecting and so my analytics, which is one of the Microsoft products that I use really frequently

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Helps me identify when I have successfully not gone back to work after hours. Now I can set my own hours, right, because we all have, you know, a different set of working hours that we'd like to work.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: But now I get that purple little square that says, you know, yes you have successfully disconnected, because you have to disconnect to recharge and in fact

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, now it's something that even my husband will be like, let me see. Let me see your analytics. And I'm like, No, you can't see me.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: But it's just a way of of really allowing us to understand our own behavior and think about how we are creating those boundaries because

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: It's hard right now to create boundaries but yet it is more important than ever to create those spaces where we, you know, we're working. There's another

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: feature that's come out that is I rely on at which is every week on Monday, I get a quarter. It's a my Cortana email and it will immediately say, um,

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Do you want me to help you find focus time. Do you want me to find breaks all I do is hit yes

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And then using AI. It goes into my calendar, it finds the places where it can book me and block me for focus time

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And and and 15 minute breaks, like to 15 minute breaks every single day. So it's helping me build that better. You know, the, the, what I consider that wellness. A hygiene.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So that a one, I can focus and get done what I want during the day so that I can disconnect

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And that reminds me. It reminds me to like stand up stretch drink water, do the things that we know are good for us. But sometimes we forget

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So, you know, I like the concept of technology being embedded into the places that we really are working every day, which is in our Outlook calendars, which is within Microsoft Teams and being able to just automate some of that that those wellness behaviors.

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Neil Milliken: And I think that the

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Neil Milliken: The awareness of

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Neil Milliken: The analytics of time well spent.

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Neil Milliken: Is really interesting and you know I have some pretty horrible statistics.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Analytics did not

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Need to check in with you weekly meal.

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Neil Milliken: No, no. God, they're just even my iPhones.

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Neil Milliken: Two sticks, you know,

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Neil Milliken: Because, um, yeah. Because the bad. I actually took last week off and and it was the first time actually don't have a holiday where I didn't really look at email. I'm not saying I didn't look at email but I

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Neil Milliken: They were mainly side job emails like access to that they weren't my day job emails and so

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Neil Milliken: That was, that was actually quite new for me because I have a habit of

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Neil Milliken: Finding email to be really addictive.

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Neil Milliken: So yeah, that, that, that at but I felt that the last 10 months have reached a point where it's

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Neil Milliken: Such a grind.

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Neil Milliken: Now, there is something about the lack of human real human interaction. You know I can. How do I say this without sounding creepy. I can no longer so to touch you and smell you as part of my

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Neil Milliken: Yeah, my, my sort of

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Neil Milliken: Social process, you know, because we don't have that proximity. Right.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: It's really interesting that you should mention that because, and I was chatting with

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: colleague here at Microsoft. That works at the human factors lab. And so he's been able to show up your research that it is literally more difficult neurologically

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: For us to be in this 2D world right to feel connect with each other to even do our work where we don't have that in person three dimensional like you're saying interaction with one another. And that's why meeting fatigue is real. And this is a real phenomenon.

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Neil Milliken: Is it

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: It's completely psychological and neurological and so we do have to begin to think about how you know we are you know balancing the way that we do connect with one another, it so you know

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: I didn't

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Feel

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Neil Milliken: Right, ya know, so I know I'm not making stuff up. Right. I worked from well not in this particular occasion. Anyway, so I've worked from home for six years. This last 10 months has been very different because what I had before was

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Neil Milliken: Space at home and office at home, and then I'd go out and see people and now

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Neil Milliken: It's just you know avatars on a screen or, you know, the 2D image of people and I and the processing load of that on your brain that delay the the cognitive toll that it takes doing that 12 hours a day, plus

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Neil Milliken: Is is significant. So I think that that

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Neil Milliken: Well, when we talk about the new normal we're not living in it yet because there needs to be the needs to be a the pendulum swinging back to allow face to face.

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Neil Milliken: Person to person in close contact interaction. When you know the health crisis allows it, because I think that that is necessary for people's health.

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Neil Milliken: And then I think that obviously there are things that tech can enable and there are things that we're learning about tech that are going to be very valuable. And so we're not going to go back to the old normal either, but I don't think we're in the new normal right now. Yeah.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: I think, you know, bringing up you know communication and isolation is is really important right now and and so I think

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, oftentimes meeting fatigue can be very real, but I know for me, like having cameras on is really important because I want to see your facial expression I want to see that.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, the body language, the non verbal language that goes along. So you know i i often

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Will always start with my camera on and and be conscious of the fact that that actually provides me another level of information that's important.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: But not everybody expresses themselves that way. So another thing that we have found to be really important is just having like an open chat.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Because people express themselves using gifts and means, especially if you don't really have the vocabulary to potentially talk about the way that you feel so I'm always encouraging people to think about creative new ways of engaging with people that's not

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, whether that's an open chat, whether that's means whether that's, you know, having video camera on, or if you're fatigued, you need to turn it off, being able to communicate that with people.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: That you know you're having a camera off meeting day and but again just really thinking about the way that you are enabling communication across different disability types across different people's personality types is part of the way that we combat that that isolation.

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Neil Milliken: Yeah, I think there's so many different ways that we all know we're all different human beings. That's the richness of humanity, and we've all got our preferences.

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Neil Milliken: And I'm I'm aware that we've already creeping up towards the end of our, our time today and I know you've got a hard stop. So I'm mindful that we know we must keep you from

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Neil Milliken: From all of your colleagues and customers so

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Neil Milliken: Thank you very much. Megan, it's been a real pleasure chatting with you need to thank our supporters but phase access micro link and also my clear tech for keeping the lights on for keeping us captioned, and for generally you know supporting us and the community. It's

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Neil Milliken: Going to be fun. On Tuesday, I really look forward to you joining us on Twitter and for us to

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Neil Milliken: continue the conversation then thank you very much.

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Yeah.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Yeah I deeply appreciate you know the willingness to have this conversation, you know about mental health, at a time when so many people are experiencing stress and anxiety, depression in new ways.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So I hope that through this, we have, you know, open the door for other people to begin to think about their own journey.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: And recognize that there are communities and including this community where you we can find support with with one another. And so just very quickly. I'm going to have all of you do one thing with me, which is take one really big deep breath. So here we go, ready

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Debra Ruh: Will you come to me and tell me to do that every

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Debra Ruh: Few minutes

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: All day long and

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: remind everybody listening and watching today to just simply breathe. Just remember to take those breasts, because it reduces anxiety and stress and brings oxygen into the system to help us become more alert. And so as we all

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: You know, work to find our own balance when we work to find our own management of mental health conditions or stress, things like simply breathing can be an incredibly important technique.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: So with that, I want to just, again, thank you so much for having me on. And know that I'm willing to to come back anytime

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Neil Milliken: Okay, thank you.

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Neil Milliken: Will hold you to that.

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Megan Lawrence, PhD: Brilliant.