AXSChat Podcast with Simon Minty, Disability Consultancy, Abnormally Funny People

Simon Minty has delivered consultancy, training and public speaking in the field of diversity, specialising in disability, since early 2000s. Based in London, his work is international. He works with many clients from a small NGO to a multinational corporation. This international work has helped Simon develop a broader under-standing of different cultural approaches to disability. He also has a creative side, helping im-prove the portrayal of disabled people in media and has worked with BBC, Channel 4, Endemol Shine, All Three Media, Warner and Sky. He’s produced numerous videos and co-produced and performed in the sell out Edinburgh Fringe comedy show Ab-normally Funny People in 2005 and 2015. Abnormally Funny People performed virtually for London’s Southbank Centre in 2021 via Zoom. He co-hosts two podcasts, BBC Ouch! and The Way We Roll. His client list is substanAal and includes BBC, Barclays, BriAsh Council, Buckingham Palace, Google, Lloyds Banking and Open Society FoundaAon. In addiAon, Simon is a Non-execuAve director of Motability Opera>ons. He is on the board of The National Theatre and is a trustee of Improbable Theatre and of StopGap Dance. He is an Ambassador to the Business Disability Forum and Busi-ness Disability Interna>onal. He also helped establish the Disability Media Alli-ance Project in California. Simon has a Post Graduate diploma in Dis-ability Management at Work and a BSc (Joint Hons) in Philosophy and Sociology, both from City University in London. A keen traveller, he won the Travel X Travel Writer of the Year 1999 – Best Television Feature for his Channel 4 travel pro-gramme in China. In 2016 GQ named him as one of the 100 best connected men in the UK. He has fea-tured on the Power 100 List of disabled people for many years. He has personal experience of disability being of short stature and limited mobility. He uses a mobility scooter for distance.

Transcript

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Neil Milliken: hello, and welcome to access chat and delighted to be joined today by Simon minty Simon is a well known face both for and voice of course for BBC out podcast and the Simon phil show.

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Neil Milliken: And also very much active in the disability accessibility advocacy and consultancy space so Simon it's been a long time coming, but really glad to have you here now.

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Neil Milliken: Tell us a bit about your background, a little bit more about the work that you're doing comedy as well because because you know I love a bit of humor and we can move on from that.

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Simon Minty: And thank you, Neil, thank you for having me, I am not great at sort of.

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Simon Minty: summarizing what I do and as i've got as my career progressed different hats pop up and I do different things that i'm either lucky enough to be asked to do we just find interesting.

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Simon Minty: I do separate, I have two sides, I have my business side, so I worked with different companies in terms of management of disability at work or.

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Simon Minty: customer service staff and your real stuff around between two years, it could be around employment could be around buildings could be about facilities, it could be anything.

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Simon Minty: And I like it, the bit that I really like is I get to meet very real people, we know that we've making a tangible difference because they get to understand things and.

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Simon Minty: that's also lead to things like the non exempt grow, so I sit on the board of major operations, which is a PLC and i'm very happy to.

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Simon Minty: To be there and it's a big insight to be at board level, and you start seeing the mechanics hope so long us all we've got to get board level by in now i'm sitting on a board and i've been seeing how that can happen and or how difficult that could be.

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Simon Minty: And, just as I got older there's I just joined the national theatre as a trustee and member of their board.

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Simon Minty: That came about, I think, because of two others that stop gap, which is a dance group and improbable theatre which to smaller.

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Simon Minty: arts organizations that i'd love for years and i've been on their boards as well.

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Simon Minty: Then the BBC ouch I have to be, can I call myself an occasional presenter because, since coded and lockdown they've sort of gone in a slightly different direction, so the regular monthly show that I did with Kate.

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Simon Minty: is now very sporadic I love it when I do it, we were talking before we started about you know, having a BBC pass and just popping into the BBC there's no two ways about it and lovely feeling I feel honored every time it happens, I do a show with phil we rebranded the way we roll.

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Simon Minty: And i'm trying to think and then the comedy abnormally funny people started in 2005 disabled comedians we have a token not disabled one that's the gag.

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Simon Minty: And we just did a show a virtual show at the southbank centre in January, which was a big headache but was kind of fun as well, so that's a very long introduction.

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Neil Milliken: Now, but that's great and and I think we all these days, particularly in our space wear many hats and, like you, the insight of sitting on boards is helpful for that whole board level by him because it is, it is a different perspective.

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Neil Milliken: And i'm really interested in in the comedy element, you know, and both you and phil they've got dry sense of humor so phil phil is phil friend who.

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Neil Milliken: Co wrote a book with our Pal caveman groups and was it or was it.

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I.

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Simon Minty: know I wouldn't say he co wrote that that Kate Nash.

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Neil Milliken: Nash, wrote it and.

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Simon Minty: fail wrote another book with a guy called a race which was why you pretend to be normal.

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Neil Milliken: Ah that's right yeah okay.

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Neil Milliken: yeah and.

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Neil Milliken: yeah very, very funny guy again and talks about people like me being walkie talkies.

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Simon Minty: phil was one of the first people I met I used to work for a bank, I worked for Barclays bank from school time and when I worked for the bank my manager said there's this disability consultancy.

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Simon Minty: And a brick wall and it we knew about the bank account, so I worked for a bank, you can look up another bank.

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Simon Minty: This was a very solid business and I thought oh i'm going to store that I went backpacking I left the Bank, I.

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Simon Minty: loved it, but I didn't always want to be there for the rest of my life I also knew i'd not explored.

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Simon Minty: I have dwarfism I have limited mobility, I hadn't explored that I just thought, this is a side issue.

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Simon Minty: And then, when I came back, I wrote to fill friend and said look i'm a training person i've done training at Barclays bank is there, something I can do, gradually, over time, we met, and then we came together and we ran a business for 10 years.

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Simon Minty: Our peak I think we had about 35 employees, we had about 20 freelancers, we were so busy it was actually it was six and a half days a week.

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Simon Minty: But we have lots of arguments 90% of our staff with disabled people lots of mental health, it was all it was quite a time.

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Simon Minty: But he's become a friend now now he's a friend, we do the podcast and like this we riff we have a two or three subjects and we see where we go with it and it's yeah i'm lucky to do it with him, even when we drive each other, a little bit get each other annoyed.

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Neil Milliken: I think that's the thing when you know people well, you can push the buttons and still still stay friends, so that so that's great.

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Neil Milliken: But the the comedy element, people are very scared of addressing disability in comedy I think that.

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Neil Milliken: That everyone goes, who knows too boo you can't you can't make any jokes about it because we've now got into sort of the politically correct fear zone now and how do you walk that.

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Neil Milliken: Balance obviously you know when we're making fun of ourselves it's fine because it's about us from us, and everything else but but.

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Neil Milliken: How do you walk that line and how is it received and is this sort of a level of discomfort sometimes that you're deliberately going for when you're when you're.

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Neil Milliken: When you're writing your comedy or thinking about how to pull something together.

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Simon Minty: And I don't go for something that will make them uncomfortable about two or three of the comedians do I mean TIM URENCO rosie Jones would say, the purpose of me is to make you feel very awkward.

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Simon Minty: Not to make you feel relaxed and they'll play with it, and I think that's great when they do and.

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Simon Minty: As ever, with disability very much this is about intention to where you come in from are you punching down, as we say in the comedy world or you just having a puppet someone for cheap joke or.

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Simon Minty: me or any wheelchair user I use a mobility scooter when someone cracks a gag about speeding or driver's licenses.

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Simon Minty: Is tedious it's tired it's old it doesn't help bring the conversation on it just makes it restricts it.

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Simon Minty: there's a difference everyone we work with a professional comedians they earn their living from doing stand up some of them have moved on now they're professional actors they're doing other things and.

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Simon Minty: So yeah i've always thought this is our material, this is stuff that makes us laugh i've only sense it one tenure Lee Davis.

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Simon Minty: used to use a derogatory term about short people, and I said why you can't use it and she's a bit funnier and she is a short person she's using the word itself.

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Simon Minty: But the only time I went now we can't I don't I don't want it to come in, I say, because I think other people will then use it as license there's a little curious bit going on of light.

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Simon Minty: When we started in 2005 this was very new people they were always comedians with disabilities doing this stuff but it an ensemble pushing it further, making it not a genre but making it something.

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Simon Minty: And then it became established i've written about going to Edinburgh festival in 20 1617 disability and comedies everywhere just part of the deal it mingles in I found of light.

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Simon Minty: I have to when we doing a show I do a pre warning and I have to do this pre warning because I think we are more sensitive than we've ever been.

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Simon Minty: And whether it's a new generation that are super sensitive to some jokes around disability or.

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Simon Minty: or they're missing where the comedies come from I almost have to say to them, this is our stuff This is where we're coming from.

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Simon Minty: But even to we've done gigs and two or three of our bit we get feedback and go, that was a socio economic joke at the expense of someone who's in a different class you shouldn't do that you like wow this is getting very detailed Lee and.

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Simon Minty: People can write to you because you're on social media so they'll find you in the olden days I just don't buy a ticket, but not now.

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Neil Milliken: yeah no I think that's.

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Neil Milliken: Definitely a generational gap in terms of the the attitudes towards this stuff and the reactions and Tony you had a point.

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Antonio Santos: yeah assignment, you also mentioned that you were working in consultancy for for a few years.

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Antonio Santos: And, and you have that you have that experience you know the time that we're living in you know the topic of accessibility diversity, it became you know, a hot topic in the last in the last three years.

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Antonio Santos: But a lot of people already working on that space long before I know and sometimes I have the feeling that there is no memory.

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Antonio Santos: Everything is new is happening now, when is when is not true, so what, what is your take on that, because sometimes i'm thinking Oh, I see posts and shares almost like we're discovering this today and it's not like that.

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Simon Minty: Ah yeah and you have to be you're quite right, Antonio and i'm a big fan of giving a nod to the previous generations this generation before me.

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Simon Minty: that brought about the legislation I jumped on in the mid 90s, when the law was in and and i'd learned from that previous generation.

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Simon Minty: you're right I just accept that I am open age i'm too early 50s and I think this happens with anything in life, you start seeing it repeat.

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Simon Minty: And you see the next generation or me begin with this is the first time this has ever been done, and I can say, well, I know the three other times that happens, but.

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Simon Minty: Initially I used to get a little bit upset I be well they forgot they don't care all the work we did was forgotten.

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Simon Minty: Now i'm thinking well, is it the greater good, is it pursuing it, is it not doing it alone.

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Simon Minty: And, and also know that no one likes animal go oh yeah I did that 20 years ago you're not popular when you do that, so you gotta you gotta let it roll.

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Simon Minty: What is lovely occasionally is if I mean in the early stages of something like Oh, we did something similar, and this is what happens So what about mixing it up a little bit and that's lovely but.

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Simon Minty: But I would add, things are different to there is genuine innovation and things like technology stuff you guys are involved in media is much bigger, so there is a whole new ballgame as well.

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Simon Minty: But you're right there's a lot of we used to even say in my day, we have to keep reinventing the wheel on disability it's the same message, every time.

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Simon Minty: But we just have to repackage it to make it slightly more engaging different new if I had one hesitation, I get a little bit anxious around this.

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Simon Minty: is sometimes we are making it very academic and we're trying to make it something high falutin something really sit and or scientific.

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Simon Minty: And I slightly worried that we could end up in a tricky place if we go too far with that and we'll lose people along the way, and some of the principles and not complex.

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Antonio Santos: i've seen sometimes brands using disability in their new purpose agenda, sometimes they do mistakes and then they end up being criticized or social media not being someone that as.

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Antonio Santos: very experienced in the media space what brands need to pay attention when they are bringing this communication types of communication forward.

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Simon Minty: For me it goes back to when you you've got the idea, you want to bring disability into something you've got a fabulous idea for a campaign.

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Simon Minty: Okay grab half a dozen disabled people who know what they're talking about we've been around this whether they got skills in marketing or media or presenter or whatever it might be and talk about it work it out.

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Simon Minty: The and then, if it does go wrong or it's a bit clunky it's been like my comedy if our comedy fails, and I get onslaught, I have to either defend it or acknowledge it.

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Simon Minty: So, if your organization then does get a lot of bacha or criticism, they can get the people they work with to say no, these were the reasons we did it like this, and this is what we're trying to say or or they go yeah we got it wrong.

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Simon Minty: I fear, when they think it's a whiz bang brilliant idea and they don't spend enough time consulting so as you say, one is just repetition we've done it before.

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Simon Minty: or two they're missing a nuance they're missing a subtlety or miss maybe they're missing a great gag they could have been funnier more engaging they could have gone further with disabled people.

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Simon Minty: i'm always cautious I like people trying things out, and I do accept people will make mistakes i'm not much of a fan of.

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Simon Minty: films that put non disabled people in ago we didn't know we didn't know i'm tired of that that you should know better, but if a company saying we want to try something you get a trip up once or twice along the way.

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Neil Milliken: yeah I know.

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Neil Milliken: The couple of things that I think that that has been significant backlash from the disability Community globally around representation and what sometimes they borders creeping up when actors that are non disabled disabled roles and.

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Neil Milliken: Particularly around recently there was fear and and the backlash around that and.

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Neil Milliken: I think that people do need to consult and people do need to be working with the Community otherwise they're going to get this kind of.

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Neil Milliken: blowback on social media because it's so easy to.

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Neil Milliken: attract over him.

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Neil Milliken: on social if you take the if you if you don't consult that this is.

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Neil Milliken: How you open yourself up to it.

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Simon Minty: I have a couple of thoughts on that and I suspect being around 20 years doing what i'm doing.

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Simon Minty: It will I wasn't as strong as aggressive as the next generation Oh, and I love the fact is they're taking no prisoners, they will just fly in and go, this is a part Irish is.

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Simon Minty: A there's no mention the words I more about pragmatic convince them use the power of argument, but they know they just know we're not putting up with it.

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Simon Minty: I like that, and I think yeah good on you are not flapping around anymore, we don't be impolite in all you know treading on tiptoes occasionally, though.

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Simon Minty: it's misdirected so they're picking the wrong one they you know if a character is able bodied for 90% of the film, you know, without a disability, with for 90%.

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Simon Minty: Then they get a minor impairment, at the end and it's like oh and i'm like no no that's not the big argument you've missed the trick there.

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Simon Minty: Good pick the one that really is irrefutably unarguable I sometimes see it with the law i'm a big fan of the legislation, I think.

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Simon Minty: To think of the amount of time and campaigning to bring it about even if it's imperfect way but occasionally i'll see people go oh that must be against the law and it's.

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Simon Minty: it's not the law isn't just a soul their solution for everything, the law is very defined in specific can we should use it when we can as a backstop but they just throw away everything, because some things just you know it's nothing to do with the law and meandering a bit myself, no.

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Neil Milliken: that's Okay, we we end so you actually answered the point that I was, I was hoping you get to which is that.

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Neil Milliken: That sort of it's it's not a cut and dried issue you know, especially with with the dramas where someone acquires a disability partway through the role and so on, so, yes, we need, we need to understand when to pick our fights pick the appropriate ones also yeah I, I think that there is.

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Neil Milliken: A line to be drawn between assertiveness.

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Neil Milliken: and aggression and I think that, sometimes, you know that line is is is overstepped and we we we end up in into aggression, rather than assertiveness and that for me feels like it could be counterproductive.

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I.

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Simon Minty: Trying to think early 90s late 90s, there were good they were campaigners who would take direct action, the direct action network Dan.

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Simon Minty: They would go and chain themselves to buses, they would go and sit in the middle of the road and cause huge disruption and I thought that I think this is fabulous.

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Simon Minty: And they were tired of it, but then, if we go politely, nothing will happen.

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Simon Minty: The bit you've always got to then have the pragmatist, to go in and have the ticket negotiation afterwards.

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Simon Minty: Because those people i'm not and then the you know the minister would say will come and speak to me and I go i'm not doing to the enemy yeah well okay you've.

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Simon Minty: you've got the attention, but you don't know, then how to follow up, so I, like some of these people to get angry, because I think.

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Simon Minty: About time to but make sure you've got a couple of people in your pocket, and some of those activists in those days, only a couple of them, but they've said to me.

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Simon Minty: you're good, because you can speak business language, so we will get them riled up, we will get them that they got it all, but you go in, because we can't talk the way you talk.

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Simon Minty: And I go well, I can't do what you do so that was like sort of symmetry I we knew our role and we could get some progression then.

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Neil Milliken: yeah no I think that's that's absolutely fair, you know I.

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Neil Milliken: am not going to be storming the barricades.

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Neil Milliken: I, like you, i'm going to be trying to frame the arguments in the language of the people that i'm addressing and and brokering a.

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Neil Milliken: You know, a way forward, because I think there is always going to be some kind of brokerage in this because we live in a world where there are multifaceted reasons for why you might do something and why you might not so even like you said, with the legislation.

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Neil Milliken: You have to choose carefully when you want to apply it, and where it can be most effective.

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Neil Milliken: So i'm thinking of the those great advocates, and you know we've had a number of them on the show over the years, like Judy human, for example, who was part of the capital call.

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Neil Milliken: Who are the the people that you see in this new generation that you think yeah you're really doing something you know you're you're making making an impression and really.

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Neil Milliken: alerting people to to the issues.

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Simon Minty: And it's a very good question and weirdly enough just the other day, someone said to me, I offered to kind of give you the top 10 people I would follow on.

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Simon Minty: Twitter to just kind of see what they're doing and i'm cheating, because while we're speaking i'm just seeing, if I can dig it out, because I don't want to do it this service.

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Simon Minty: can be once second.

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Simon Minty: New isn't going to turn up, let me just do a quick search.

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Neil Milliken: Is the King of Twitter list, by the way.

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Simon Minty: There we go right and OK, I can Maybe I should just pick two or three of my favorites rather than go through, I had a list of about 15 people.

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Simon Minty: And that included people like Charlie Swinburne who's an actor and a writer and doing some amazing work I love Adam Pearson is the actor.

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Simon Minty: Nikki folks at the BBC she's just got lots of levels of good stuff doing great mainstream TV but also brilliant disability stories.

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Simon Minty: And sinead Burke her her profile is so high, I cannot believe where she's getting into so i'm interested to see the impact and the changes that will come about and Sam rank I adore Sam I think she puts herself out there.

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Simon Minty: And is extremely vulnerable in some ways, but she's got so much kind of confidence, and I was gonna say balls but that sounds a bit of a weird.

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Simon Minty: phrasing and there's one called abby brown he's very low key at the moment, but I think she's going to be be a really super strong advocate.

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Simon Minty: And, and I love just Tom jess who sometimes goes by tourette's hero she's a performer and after she's a activist she's just great and that list could go on for quite a long time, your Maybe I should give you that list, and you can put it in the show notes.

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Neil Milliken: I would love I would love to and actually maybe we should be asking people for the role models is one of our one of our questions for Tuesday night, you know.

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Simon Minty: The bit, I would say that the better like about them, they have a mixture of activism and pragmatism, they.

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Simon Minty: also have a smart because some people on Twitter will get very upset about disability issue but I occasion think i'm really sorry is horrible that but that's reality that's not much you can do about that and.

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Simon Minty: The people I list are aware of that they'll be be be aware of where the thing to push is where the things are going to go life sucks sometimes.

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Neil Milliken: yeah and I think that that's a really.

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Neil Milliken: interesting point because we we've had these intellectual models of disability, for a long time and we've had this sort of fight between the medical model and the social model and everything social model and it's just society that is breaking.

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Neil Milliken: And the reality is somewhere in between, you know what you know we have days, where actually you know I have.

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Neil Milliken: A couple of hidden disabilities i've got dyslexia and ADHD and most of the time I don't consider you know those to be particularly disabling, but there are occasions where suddenly I feel very disabled by them.

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Neil Milliken: And, and then it really does suck.

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Neil Milliken: And there's no getting around it and so so and it's not always This, I think that doing that either you know that's actually inside my head and part of me so it's part of my my condition.

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Antonio Santos: You know, but we also have some members of our community who tweeted and say Oh, I want to do crazy things I want to jump from here, or from there.

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Antonio Santos: And some water, oh no you can't you are in new to do that, and you know I really want to do that, I want to have fun so there's also that point, you know.

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Simon Minty: I think the perennial debate is, you know acquisition versus being born with and then.

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Simon Minty: The bit I learned fairly early on, I am fortunate in many ways, in terms of how I was brought up.

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Simon Minty: And what my parents instilled in me they didn't have other short people they didn't have it disabled kids I was the one who locked up and they're like oh we've got to work this out.

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Simon Minty: But I know other people with exactly the same condition is mine but they're whether their confidence or their skill.

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Simon Minty: It isn't just whatever the physical or mental thing is there's five other things that happened during our life that will have an impact on that i'm a big fan of you, we talked about this beforehand, as well as I worked disability pride I want this to not feel ashamed and one stigma.

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Simon Minty: But I I read in the US, sometimes you got to get Community first.

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Simon Minty: So if you can hang out with people who've got something similar to you and you start that bonding you start to understand us are going Oh, this is funny or German why that anecdote and so on, and that Community then builds to pride and i'm a big fan of them.

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Neil Milliken: yeah I think one of the nicest things I found on Twitter over the last couple of years is actually the ADHD community.

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Neil Milliken: And particularly.

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Neil Milliken: The hashtag neuro diverse squad.

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Okay.

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Neil Milliken: there's some real joy in a couple of people that I would name is is they advocates and leaders that are doing a great job there's a lady called Danny donovan.

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Neil Milliken: Okay, who draws cartoons and is now doing stuff on tick tock.

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Neil Milliken: Who is just brilliant and her stuff is being stolen and plagiarized all over the place.

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Neil Milliken: But she's she's doing a great job and then.

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Neil Milliken: there's how to ADHD.

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Neil Milliken: Fino the ADHD alien and again there's a whole bunch but it's a really for the most part, very warm community and.

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Neil Milliken: Dare I say a warmer than some of the other communities that I spend time around.

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Neil Milliken: So and it's kind of it's really kind of interesting to see how that has been is engendering a sense of pride because it's quite it's actually quite new within ADHD because ADHD has has had that stigma and shame until really still actually now because it's still a disorder.

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Neil Milliken: So so.

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Neil Milliken: that's interesting and even the the some of the stuff around the renaming.

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Neil Milliken: So someone could say you might find the hashtag dread pirate.

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Neil Milliken: And I don't remember exactly but it's it's but basically it's it's a rewarding to sort of explain how people's brains work rather than.

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Neil Milliken: You know, passing it as a as a disorder.

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Neil Milliken: i'll try and find that for you, but I think it is, as you say you know you do need to build these communities, one of the reasons we've.

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Neil Milliken: persevered with access chat aside from you know learning every week because we meet people we learn is actually that that community of people that we've built up over the years, well.

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Simon Minty: And it rubs off on each other there's nothing nicer when I get to hang out with a bunch of short people or maybe phil and I are just kind of riffing and.

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Simon Minty: And it rubs off it sort of makes a little bit stronger little bit more resilient a little bit more smarter, whatever it might be a little bit funnier.

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Simon Minty: yeah i'm a big fan of that.

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Neil Milliken: So I try and find what dread pirate.

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Neil Milliken: It was it was really interesting to.

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Neil Milliken: Actually, I think the original dread pirate Roberts comes as something else, because that was the guy that ran Silk Road.

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Neil Milliken: which was the the undercover procurement network for illicit substances but, but in this particular case, I don't think it's.

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Neil Milliken: I don't think that's what was intended.

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Neil Milliken: Although there is quite a bit of.

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Neil Milliken: Co morbidity with substance abuse and ADHD because it is actually a.

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Neil Milliken: Protein deficiency as part of it so yeah people are looking to find ways to trigger the doping system so lots of smokers and drinkers and other self medicated amongst the ADHD community, I wonder how many comedians have ADHD.

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Simon Minty: That the trope stereotype but there was some evidence used to be very much around mental health some film.

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Simon Minty: And it kicks around, but not all my best friends the best you I do abnormally funny people with a is just calm and relaxed and has a good family life doesn't drink or smoke, I mean he lets comedians down, to be honest, because he's far too comfortable unsorted.

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Neil Milliken: yeah so where did where was the material coming from if.

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Simon Minty: he's an absurdist he's a surrealist and that may be that light comes on and family he had a very funny family.

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Neil Milliken: Excellent I mean, I think that that's The other thing is, of course, comedy.

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Neil Milliken: is based on observing humanity, the best comedy Belt is built on observation of reality and and picking out the observed from from from reality.

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Neil Milliken: Do you ever go into your professional life into your consultancy and then start seeing stuff through your comedians I.

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Neil Milliken: You draw material out obviously you try and keep the two separate, to an extent, but.

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Simon Minty: If you say to me, what is your number one thing that you do, I still think i'm a trainer i'm a consultant.

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Simon Minty: And when I did I don't think i'm a stand up comedian.

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Neil Milliken: I don't know, nobody, but you have material, I have a funny brain and I love it and being around it and I did do the we did the Edinburgh fringe.

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Simon Minty: festival festival and for an every night for a month I got up and did stand up and i'm so glad that I did I remember, going back to work after that.

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Simon Minty: Oh, my goodness, sisters, I felt as a much better stage presence performer I could throw jokes in.

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Simon Minty: I I do this net the bit I learned quite early on, but this was even when I was being trained to be a trainer.

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Simon Minty: The feedback I got was don't write jokes into your training materials, and I said why and they said, because you ad libbed.

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Simon Minty: Enough jokes that all you're doing is stand up and you're not actually teaching anybody anything.

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Simon Minty: So i've gradually learned, one of my strengths is ad Lib and reacting rather than just writing a joke, and to be a stand up you got to write jokes so.

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Simon Minty: It does happen, I am i'm a very much believer we could spend an hour doing a technical discussion around disability.

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Simon Minty: I could get one of my comedians to do a really good one minute gag.

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Simon Minty: And that would be the same impact if not better because you can cut through a lot with stand up or with comedy so yeah I definitely use it as a tool when I would feel because it is a relaxed show that we do the jokes come a little bit thicker and faster.

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Simon Minty: And I wait, you know I don't think we read it too many out, but once or twice.

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Simon Minty: We might make each other laugh, but no one would ever listen again say you know.

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Neil Milliken: yeah I think.

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Neil Milliken: Yes, there is there is sometimes the need to self censor the things that we find funny and I had.

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Simon Minty: I had one bit of feedback, which was we like you doing your comedy could you love more than us, they don't think my most my most my jokes are funny but because I giggle at my own jokes that makes other people laugh, which was a bit of a backhanded compliment.

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Antonio Santos: So.

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Antonio Santos: So so.

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Antonio Santos: Many people are working from home today, so how can we keep our umer in good shape and our mental health or can we know how can we keep our balances.

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Simon Minty: And I.

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Simon Minty: Think, I see a moment i'm delivering courses around managing mental health during a time of Kobe I do it for managers and I for their own, and then we do it for.

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Simon Minty: Managers managing the team and it's really hard now the last couple of months when i've met managers and people there's a real level of exhaustion.

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Simon Minty: That lockdown one and two, we could bounce back, but something's going on with this lockdown three that we are very weary and it's harder so i'm not going to underestimate it, I am a fan of the little things like.

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Simon Minty: Just you know that write down a couple of things you're grateful for doing one of those mood flow Apps I can't believe that technology can be this good, but it is it's very helpful.

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Simon Minty: But then I might if my if she said what's your direct one I would go and listen to the way we roll with me and phil friend, because we talk about serious issues, but we joke around as well.

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Simon Minty: There are a ton of good podcasts out there, so go into the human section of podcasts even if you're not listening before.

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Simon Minty: And and BBC Radio there'll be a whole load of BBC Radio four shows the comedy any of that is a joy and, of course, you can go to have no money funny people there's bits and bobs we've got up on YouTube.

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Simon Minty: My last week it's not humor but it's cut yourself some slack it is what it is you can't solve this you're not going to be able to feel great about it, and when you say it is what it is we just get in for it.

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Simon Minty: Maybe then you can see some of the lighter side of it but it's not easy Antonia I i've come with a very serious question to what was a nice serious answer to a nice question.

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Antonio Santos: No cuz I was, I was reading some of some of the posts that you have out there, and some of the events that we're in, and some people who are just some of the coaches and trainers, they were there are starting to be mentally tired.

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Antonio Santos: themselves as well do you feel that that can happen as well, so what I can know people who are making the effort to support others can also feel drained we all the same.

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Simon Minty: Exactly and it's the old cliche if you don't look after yourself how can you look off to somebody else that absolutely that's.

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Simon Minty: If he can be small and some really good managers are saying to my teams i'm feeling it i'm feeling it and then suddenly everyone becomes a bit more supportive but you're right, the idea that you, we can just play a role of keeping everyone else happy.

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Simon Minty: it's that's a real you're gonna get in trouble that way.

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Antonio Santos: Over over the last couple of months, over the last you know, three, four months, there was a kind of a grow in terms of.

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Antonio Santos: new platforms that makes a kind of a radio and podcasts know like wherever new solutions on Twitter, where you are able to create a kind of a group.

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Antonio Santos: where everyone talks in the kind of life format, you have Globe house, you have a lot of experience in in this kind of format and podcast immediate what you think about this new.

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Antonio Santos: formats that are day, something that are are succeeding now because most people are at home, or is there something there that we need to pay attention.

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Simon Minty: I think it's too early to tell I saw one comedian say you know it's not enough for us to be able to be so self centered that we want to tweet all the time we've now got to go to club House and say it as well.

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Simon Minty: So we're not any writing we've got to tell people to go to hear our voice, and I was desperate to join clubhouse and, as you know, and then.

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Simon Minty: Christian a colleague she put me in and i'm.

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Simon Minty: it's still early days, for me, I like the idea that you can have these communities in these groups I think that's great.

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Simon Minty: i've been involved in some podcasts that then have a whatsapp group so it's a real nice community and there's a lot of texting after that.

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Simon Minty: But it can be overwhelming as well, I i'm very much I love new things I love shiny new ideas i'm a big fan so let's see how it rolls I i'm not gonna pass judgment yeah and tell me i'm gonna sit on the fence.

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Neil Milliken: I think that i'm a little bit like that so Antonia got me the invite I shared an invite with with.

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Neil Milliken: Someone that I think would appreciate it, I don't feel like i've got the energy for club health right now, you know I just.

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Neil Milliken: It almost fills me with dread the thought of having to expend further energy to get on and talk and.

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Neil Milliken: i'm sort of doing my job, doing the the side jobs wearing multiple hats, please don't give me another hat.

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Neil Milliken: So I can see how it might work I have created an account and maybe when i've slept for more than six hours, I might I might.

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Neil Milliken: want to dip my toe in but, but I think that, with all of the other stuff that's happening with Kobe ID and lockdown and the intensity of working from home and dealing with everybody's anxiety and emotional and say.

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Neil Milliken: I need to do I need to be on this now.

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Simon Minty: But I suspect for some, this is a fabulous new medium.

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Simon Minty: And, and the.

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Simon Minty: audio is the one that they wanted, because you got visual impairment, and this is the gap.

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Simon Minty: So I but I totally agree it's horses for courses i've only just finished the queen's gambit on netflix that everyone else what's months ago and i'm so glad I did watch it but and.

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Simon Minty: i've got too many other things at the moment, but I will come to it, or what will happen one of YouTube will send me a message and say there's something going on at clubhouse we got to go and see and then I will so he's got to suck me in.

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Neil Milliken: yeah so I agree, sometimes also I joined these platforms i've got the presidents and then I wait and see whether anything happens before I invest too much time and I will most of us like Antonio is my litmus test.

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Simon Minty: I was destined to be part of it, and our summers inviting me i'm like yeah and.

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Simon Minty: yeah yeah I feel pleased i'm part of it.

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Neil Milliken: yeah great Thank you it's been a real pleasure chatting is it's been far too long before getting you on but.

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Neil Milliken: really looking forward to having a rich conversation on Twitter on Tuesday, and I also need to thank actually your former employer Barclays access for helping keep us on air also micro link and my career tech for keeping us captioned and accessible.

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Simon Minty: Thank you.