AXSChat Podcast with Kate Nash, CEO of PurpleSpace

Kate is the world’s leading authority in ‘Networkology’. 

 The science behind the growth of workplace networks and resource groups. 

In April 2014 her book ‘Secrets & Big News’ was published tackling the issue of ‘disclosure’ of disability and what employers can do to help people be themselves at work. 

 
Kate launched PurpleSpace in October 2015 as the world’s first and only professional development hub for disabled employee networks and resource groups. 

In 2017, Kate created #PurpleLightUp, the global movement that celebrates and draws attention to the economic contribution of the 386 million disabled employees around the world. 

Transcript

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Neil Milliken: hello, and welcome to access chat we're really truly delighted to welcome back to access chat Kate Kate is the CEO of purple space responsible for the chaos and fun that is purple light out which.

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Neil Milliken: transforms the world and painted purple every third of December.

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Neil Milliken: purple space is all about takes word net work ology so i've managed not to trip over it so great great to have you back with us, Kate you're always super guest always super engaged delighted to have you what are you up to.

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Kate Nash: All the question will not firstly thank you so much for the invitation I love you guys and the work.

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Kate Nash: That you're doing to build new and fresh conversations when it comes to disability and accessibility in many different guises, so a huge pleasure to join you again today, thank you, thank you.

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Kate Nash: So what am I up to my goodness wow, what are we up to I think more of the same more of the same, as you say, new.

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Kate Nash: purple light up now is a movement that has captured the hearts and the minds and the imaginations of many different types of individuals and different types of organizations who genuinely now opposition and disability as.

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Kate Nash: As an economic imperative, you know of course it's on the third of December.

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Kate Nash: And, which is you know United Nations International Day of persons with disability, but what we wanted to do was to really focus on celebrating talent.

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Kate Nash: And celebrating that economic contribution, rather than just position disability as deficit so so that yet that movement has just we've lost control completely and beautifully.

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Kate Nash: So that the work now is really about how we support businesses to continue.

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Kate Nash: To build really well structured well resourced and creative employee resource groups and networks, because they are the vehicles increasingly.

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Kate Nash: for delivering activities that support people to bring their authentic self to work, which of course leverages of purple light up so yeah we're just we're doing lots we're doing that, so we can delve into all of those bits and pieces, but thank you for for the invite.

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Neil Milliken: Oh it's real pleasure to have you with us again we're always like to engage in conversation with you so.

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Neil Milliken: I think that you know we've seen the growth of the the movement, you know Deborah things purple light happens every day.

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Neil Milliken: Obviously.

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Neil Milliken: I know she's going.

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Neil Milliken: To get me back for this so.

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Neil Milliken: yeah.

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Neil Milliken: But but but yeah we've seen the growth, you know we're seeing more and more employee resource groups employee networks come together and so purple spaces, as you said before the network of employee network so and so that's growing and it's.

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Neil Milliken: I think you know it's done, really, really well in the UK we've seen how how good, that is, how do you how do you start to replicate that overseas.

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Kate Nash: yeah we've already done it now it's a global movement now so one of the things that we we did last year was to partner with different continent partners around the world, so we delivered a 24 hour global gig huge amount of work and it nearly kills us, but in a good way.

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Kate Nash: And so, for example, we started in Australia at sun up and we had a range of interviews and panel discussions both of the chief executive level, as well as senior business leaders.

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Kate Nash: At exact sponsor level, as well as a big leaders and including a good number of politicians to across the world.

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Kate Nash: So we literally followed and chased the sun across the world, so we were you know, obviously in Australia, we were in Middle East, we were in India partnering with enable India and Catherine.

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Kate Nash: Disability in over at the states in Europe business Disability Forum held the European leg, so it is, it has gone universal yeah.

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Neil Milliken: So so but.

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Neil Milliken: So I yeah I know the event has what I was thinking more about was the event one day and and it's the sort of marquee event for the networks, etc, but how do we help the network's grow.

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Neil Milliken: yeah because that's I think that's that's sometimes challenging so we we've within our own organization we've managed to take networks, out of one country and start.

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Neil Milliken: to grow them in others, but it's it's more difficult than growing it in in country So how do we, how do we form these support networks and help that sort of organic growth of people coming together.

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Neil Milliken: across international boundaries, and you know Is this something that that purple spaces involved in a developing a playbook, for example, for how how this might work.

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Kate Nash: yeah absolutely now and you're absolutely right, I mean purple light hub is nothing unless there is activity and action that sits behind that.

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Kate Nash: So one of the things that we're doing is noticing the ways in which companies are using purple light up to drive change activities.

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Kate Nash: So one of the things we've noticed our Members have been sharing with us.

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Kate Nash: That typically now as a company gets involved in purple space and gets involved in purple light up, they often do a number of things, one is that they will do.

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Kate Nash: A deep dive on their policies and their practices and their procedures, so they will use the third of December really to announce a series of actions that they're going to.

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Kate Nash: Work to in the course of the year and all they might sign up to, for example, valuable 500 or they might relaunch or launch, for the first time and employee resource group so.

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Kate Nash: So there's there's two things that we're up to now that are really going to bring the Community together through growth.

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Kate Nash: One is we've launched a new working group called out a global forum, so this is headed up by Darren rowan over at eli lilly the pharma company.

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Kate Nash: And he convenes four or five times a year he rg leaders in different.

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Kate Nash: Different places of the world, so, as we know, for example, Shell has something like 15 AIG chapters in different parts of the world, IBM, he says we know again.

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Kate Nash: recently joined purple space because IBM have a range of chapters across the world, so the big global forum will be looking at different governing instruments.

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Kate Nash: To deliver er geez in different parts of the world, some have what I would call an umbrella structure where they report into a central body dependent on the legacy nationality of that company.

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Kate Nash: and others have truly very independent args in different parts of the world and we'll just share best practice so once sort of an umbrella body others very much liberated to do their own thing.

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Kate Nash: So Darren yes convening these AIG leaders around the world we're going to look at different governing instruments.

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Kate Nash: And we're going to importantly look at the common truths that employees with disabled with disability face across the world.

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Kate Nash: So, as we know, different cultures will bring different opportunities, as well as different constraints.

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Kate Nash: And so what we're looking at, or what are the common things that join us in the experience of disability or ill health or mental ill health.

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Kate Nash: And what are the common opportunities that help people to ameliorate those back barriers, because that's, the first thing we're doing and then secondly.

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Kate Nash: we're very lucky to receive some funding from a number of companies, not least tsk who are funding what we call a purple confidence Program.

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Kate Nash: And this is a program that is going to deliver a range of collateral and assets and resources and podcasts and written materials.

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Kate Nash: about how you build in a confidence and resilience and that will be made freely available through our membership so it's a job of work to look at.

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Kate Nash: What are the blocks to progress in building in a confidence, what do we need to learn from each other and what can we learn faster and better so that we can bring our authentic selves yeah.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): wow wow that's very impressive K I I mean.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): First of all, I since I know that we have a global audience your cake, the work that you're done in your.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Playing how is global, but if I am an er G or I want to create an energy or.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): I have any rg, but it is not thriving which I hear often.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): from companies, I know they they can come to you, but they can come to you, even if they're not in the UK, because you are a global brand that are healthy and you work with a lot of multinational corporations, but it that I know of Kate.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): I don't know that anybody's doing what you're doing in the states, for example, I don't I know that we have Iraqis all over and that organization that you mentioned, like disability and.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): You know, helping guide it, you know but that's not really what they do you know they're really be to be there, like you know so.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): I don't see other people doing this work, and I think that and I love that the work that you're doing is you're looking at the common.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): ality of the the barriers and the gaps in the opportunities but also are y'all looking at it from the lens of the intersections of the.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Other er G groups because that's something that I know that has come up, often in the States here and it's like well, we have a women's group.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Okay, great, but is your women's group embracing women with disabilities women of color things like that, so I was just curious from that can't if a corporations were thing to it they're not in the UK, can they come to you, I assume that is yes, and also what about the intersections.

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Kate Nash: As well yeah so the the the answer to the first is absolutely yes we increasingly our membership now are either large global businesses that are have a footprint in different parts of the world.

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Kate Nash: Or will have an exclusive footprint in a particular part of the world, and you know, while often you know we we of course do rely on the fact that English is often still used as the business language.

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Kate Nash: But we're doing some work to look at where we can translate and adapt our materials and now know how so that they are deeply relevant.

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Kate Nash: in different parts of the world, so that we're doing that, over the next few months, but yes we you know our know how we We strongly believe is is universal, and that is partly because.

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Kate Nash: The human experience of disability well, of course, you know there's different contacts.

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Kate Nash: and different socio and a cultural and you know, religious and political context, of course, they differ around the world, but you know almost universally it's a human experience.

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Kate Nash: that the majority of people if pushed you know would say, even those of us who are highly politicized when it comes to disability, you know if pushed the majority of people.

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Kate Nash: I like to to say, well, it has bought challenge into their lives, and you know if they had the choice.

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Kate Nash: They would not invite this human experience into their lives, and so the common experience is the need.

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Kate Nash: To build in a confidence, you know it's no surprise that our strapline is building in a confidence or disability confidence from the inside out.

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Kate Nash: Because you know you've mentioned some of the most brilliant organizations and we have a great joy and working very closely with nearly all of them, so whether that's.

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Kate Nash: Australia network on disability or disability in or enable in Darrell Stephen travels remarkable work at GB dn.

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Kate Nash: They they do what they do best is improve that policy and procedure at the top of the shop and what we do is help individual disabled people, build that confidence and then improve.

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Kate Nash: internal processes by being part of that he it and then network So yes, short answer is yes, wherever an organization is around the world, we have something on offer to deliver in terms of the intersection ality piece.

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Kate Nash: Again yeah we take great story encouraging disability networks to work very closely with other people networks within businesses, whether that's gender networks, whether that's LGBT plus.

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Kate Nash: networks, whether that's cultural networks or legacy networks, whether it's intergenerational and so on and so forth, because.

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Kate Nash: You know the reality is in all organizations need to make sure they get bang for buck in terms of investing in their Ai geez and there are some issues and topics that are universal.

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Kate Nash: To like the often called is disclosure and declaration, so you know working very closely with those other people networks, it just it's just a really sensible way of getting things done yeah.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Well, said well said, and I just wanted to midnight, we can turn the microphone over to Antonio or Neil but yesterday I had a woman on my show human potential at work, and she.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Her name is lauren push shooting and she she's a psychologist and she's a psychologist with live experiences with disabilities and she said something.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): That I just thought was so powerful she was born with a rare form of muscular dystrophy and so as she called me she has been in a wheelchair power wheelchair, since the age of five but she said.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): I grew up in a very small town in Michigan and I was very included, and she said the other kids actually thought it was cool that I had a wheelchair of of of cheese that I didn't really start to understand the societal.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Problems and started going to college I own this was I didn't realize, I was sort of protected by my peers and my friends in the small town, but she said.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): If she only had to contend with muscular dystrophy if that's all she had to contend with.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): She said her life would be so much easier, she also made a comment, would I have been born, would I would I choose to be born without muscular dystrophy.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Well yeah maybe but it doesn't really matter, because this is, who I am but she said i've had more trauma and more problems with how society underestimates me.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): How society would include me to be able to go to a restaurant or to the movies, or so many other places, even today, after 30 years of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): 30 plus years she said, still society disables me and that's what we talked a lot about on the show because.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): People are people humans are humans and where these biological creatures that you know all kinds of things happen to us when we're born in all along the path.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): it's not bad we're not broken and even yesterday, Kate I was thinking when she was talking when my daughter was born with down syndrome.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): And people around me my friends started realizing it instead of congratulating me on my amazing baby girl.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): It was more like oh i'm so sorry i'm so it was such a tragedy coming out me and it hurt me so much because I already knew that my daughter was amazing.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): As a lot of parents do right, but I just and I know you're dealing with a lot of these issues, but I just make some of those comments that i'm hearing the very powerful.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): If I only had to do with them the muscular I wish I only had to deal with that, but society dealing with society and other peers and people telling her that she can only treat other people with disabilities.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): And I said, well, I actually would disagree with that because I think your lived experience probably makes you a better counselor to deal with all people.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): And I won't even go into the fact that I took my own daughter to counts and when she was struggling and it was a horrible experience for her so I want to.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): You know, continue to champion the work that you're doing and applaud the work you're doing to for us to really to break down some of these barriers, so I just want to make that comment.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): turn the MIC over to you and then Antonio and neal i'm gonna be quiet, whoever wants to go next so you first came.

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Kate Nash: You know just respond to your story debbie you're so right, I mean that is such a powerful story isn't it, you know we know the world over, that that disability.

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Kate Nash: creates can be such enormous challenge just in getting through daily life, and you know and i'm working and dealing with the children and the parents and once loved ones, and you know.

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Kate Nash: The experience of disability in ill health can bring huge challenge and then added to that what you're touching on is awesome having to learn the.

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Kate Nash: tricks and the FLEX, I suppose, to deal with others and other people's sometimes their lack of expectation or or maybe their sadness or their pity or and that takes a huge skill set.

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Kate Nash: But, as we know that takes time to learn and adapt and again, one of the things that we do see very powerful role of er geez is to support individuals.

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Kate Nash: to know that, over time, things can get better you know, things do get better over time once you've learned how you can manage daily lives through accessible kit and gizmos and.

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Kate Nash: Adaptation of policy and practice and procedure, but then learning a few things up your sleeve about how you deal with others yeah.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): yeah good point and Neil and Antonia i'm once again i'll turn the MIC over to you, but since you haven't said you wanted i'm going to ask one more question we have seen.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): i've seen problems with some looking from the lens of us, but I can do this globally as well, but there's two US corporations that come to mind that had ear or Jews.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): But the er geez we're not really supported it seemed like it was just something as like a sure go ahead, great one you want.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): But the leadership wasn't really committed and in both these cases they actually wound up losing some very talented employees, because the employees got really quite frankly disgusted and very disheartened by the lack of leadership support, and I was just wondering if.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Because that's also another reason, I think, for them to.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): work with you, because having the rg but it's got to be done in the right way for you to have all the wonderful benefits and to encourage and empower your employees, but if you do it carelessly it can hurt you so I was just wonder if you wanted to address that.

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Kate Nash: Question it's a great point Deborah and you're so right, you know that we do from time to time come across.

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Kate Nash: Organizations that haven't properly thought through the construct of a big or it's it's not a loved er CIO or it's a resource group that doesn't have a senior at sponsor or an executive champion that overseas overseas it or champions it and you know I think you know the reality is.

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Kate Nash: Organizations ought to invest a little bit of thinking about what they want, ultimately, an end to achieve.

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Kate Nash: it's not a sock it should be and it's often is a really central part of the way in which an organization's delivers its.

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Kate Nash: Disability inclusion strategy because it's one of the most simplest and cost effective ways, as we know, as learning directly from your own people.

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Kate Nash: about how you adapt policy, without a doubt, what I do find interesting now is increasingly we're seeing a significant number of senior business leaders start to share openly their truth.

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Kate Nash: And their stories around disability and you know I like to think we've played no small part in that because, through the er geez your talent spot in.

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Kate Nash: You know it's no coincidence that remarkable Jenny life lori from Microsoft, you know she is an incredible ambassador for Microsoft.

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Kate Nash: And that you follow her audit trail of her career once upon a time she ran an employee resource group within Microsoft same with.

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Kate Nash: Sam Latif at Procter and Gamble you know she is making really important decisions around the accessibility of product and their product lines you follow the audit chain i've heard career.

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Kate Nash: guess what she used to head up any rg and I think it's a real talent pipeline, the purple pipeline.

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Kate Nash: is just getting bigger and better at a senior level, because people are building in a confidence they're sharing tips and advice.

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Kate Nash: How do I go for that job, how do I get that promotion, what do I need to learn how do we climb up the greasy pole so that is starting to happen and I, as I say, I think we were playing a role in that, and maybe kidding myself, but I think we're playing a role in that.

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Antonio Santos: Most of us are almost in Kendall lockdown for almost a year and we before this, I know that you used to host a lot of networking events.

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Antonio Santos: There was a lot of conversations events, but what what I would like to know from your learnings over the past year.

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Antonio Santos: What new challenges F came forward no with no people working from home what is new, what are the new conversations that are taking place.

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Antonio Santos: And what are the needs that people know Oh, I never thought of this now, I have the need, because i'm working the different way, what are what are, what have you seen not there.

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Kate Nash: yeah wow you're absolutely right and I cannot believe, here we are talking together and it's been nearly a year as global citizens, we have we have lived and worked through this.

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Kate Nash: And I think the key things that we see in in our world is obviously the opportunities that digital and remote working.

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Kate Nash: have provided for us, and, although there is lots of challenge within that I think again as human beings organizations almost.

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Kate Nash: universally now are thinking through what are the mitigation because we're it's a very intense way of working and lots of organizations, not least purple space.

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Kate Nash: Is you know thinking through, how can we make it easier for our people to work and deliver well through digital and remote means.

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Kate Nash: In terms of Dr g's massive opportunity huge opportunity I mean in terms of pepper space delivery we do everything online now you know we we won't be going back you know we will not be having face to face events.

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Kate Nash: Much as I hope one day that we will meet as friends and colleagues, etc.

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Kate Nash: I think, and using the clues I suppose of our membership, it is highly likely that a lot of employers will not be overly encouraging their people to network and go to big events anymore, etc.

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Kate Nash: And in terms of the rgs will you know, as we know, disability can often bring, for example, travel challenges i'm moving around challenges and transport challenges.

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Kate Nash: So disability rgs sometimes fell on the back foot, because they couldn't move that people around you know if you see agenda network.

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Kate Nash: They might have face to face meetings two or three times a year in a particular country and be in the capital city of whatever country you're talking about.

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Kate Nash: and disability networks always fell on the back foot, because there were extra charges an extra inconvenience and extra difficulties in people getting together well that's just gone at a stroke.

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Kate Nash: And so now it's much easier to be able to network digitally as again we know it brings challenges, but the ways in which disability networks and er geez are just growing.

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Kate Nash: It is just huge it's remarkable almost universally all of our Members have grown their memberships through this so challenges but great opportunities and that's about building a narrative and feeling part of the gang of a grouping of a community.

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Antonio Santos: New field feel people they are more connected now within the networks are feeling that they are more proactive and participating more.

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Kate Nash: yeah 100% 100% i've known, for example, a few weeks i'll keep the company's nameless just to protect confidentiality, but what often happens is.

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Kate Nash: Particularly the wonderful Caroline Casey who we work so closely with a valuable 500.

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Kate Nash: Very often, through the third of December purple light up when companies joined valuable 500.

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Kate Nash: And they say what can we do first and often it's the question of any rg and sometimes it's the other way around, so when he he had been part of pepper space for a while.

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Kate Nash: And through purple light up they choose to encourage their company to put disability on the board agenda and they joined valuable 500.

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Kate Nash: And the one thing I see is quite often, and he it leader will would email, the chief exec on the third of December and say well it's all very well, you sign up to valuable 500 but what are you going to do so.

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Kate Nash: You know, never before have individual standard their chief exec online and seeing his or her living room and the children run past and the messy kitchen and the.

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Kate Nash: pots on the back of the kitchen So yes, it brings challenge, but it also brings cheekiness you know it brings courage.

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Kate Nash: And it brings a greater connection, because we are staring at each other on a screen so yeah we see a lot of courage in our Community.

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Kate Nash: Because they feel able to speak truth to power and asked question because what's the worst that can happen here, you know it's it's a no.

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Kate Nash: But, more often than not it's a yes let's work with you let's see what is the chief executive can do to support you to deliver a high performing employee resource group yeah.

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Neil Milliken: And and lots of lots of.

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Neil Milliken: I think people have been engaged in employee resource groups, I came at it the other way around, that I was involved in the field and I I helped found a adapts network or other sponsor it.

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Neil Milliken: And I think one of the challenges is where a business has.

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Neil Milliken: The sort of the capability in some of the deliveries already is, is where those lines drawn between the the advocacy of the.

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Neil Milliken: Of the employee network or resource group and the people delivering it because the there is quite quite frequently some tension between the desires of the individuals and the people that have the professional experience and the.

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Neil Milliken: jaded years under the belt of.

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Neil Milliken: You know some of the challenges of the technical systems and and there is a balance to be struck on some of this stuff so.

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Neil Milliken: How, how do you deal with that tension, obviously I know how we've dealt with it within our own organization it's not tense, by the way, i've been on a call with my you know.

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Neil Milliken: My pals it, as I said that tonight because i'm still the sponsor but at the same time it's we, we have to define.

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Neil Milliken: rules of engagement and ways of working in own who owns what, in terms of stuff so so you know I definitely do have an advocacy hat within the organization internally into senior managers, etc, but i'm not the one.

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Neil Milliken: i'm very measured in the way that I do it because I it's you know my professional role, whereas I think that that to a certain extent, the cheese can be the ones that go boy, you see what what have you done where's your plan you know, whereas it would be somewhat more difficult to to.

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Neil Milliken: Actually, that would be like why, if I hey you see what if I fail to prepare you with the plan that you need to deliver on the third of December yeah so.

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Neil Milliken: So do you see that difference coming about quite a lot how the how the different organizations deal with it.

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Kate Nash: yeah so you captured a real golden truth that runs through the heart and the soul of the rgs nearly absolutely right.

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Kate Nash: And I think that's what makes them so beautiful, because then that the bundles of energy and passion.

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Kate Nash: You know, we We often say that the er geez networks affinity groups belonging groups, they will call different things, but they all at heart.

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Kate Nash: a vehicle for delivering passion and energy and interest and appetite for speeding up the pace of change when it comes to disability inclusion and while often you know, of course, you know the numbers of individuals that will be involved in a steering committee.

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Kate Nash: That they are by very nature volunteers they've all got day jobs, you know they're all doing this at the side of their desk.

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Kate Nash: And it may be, they don't have as much experience, as you know, the professionals who do this for a living and mainstreaming disability within the business.

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Kate Nash: But that gives some freedom and it gives some you know that then liberated to ask sometimes the difficult questions you know many of them will do it with a smile on their face and and others won't do it with a smile on their face and, as you say, they will prod and poke, but I think.

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Kate Nash: You know i'm a great fan of using the language of vehicle when it comes to args he is not a destination know they are a service provider, they are a vehicle for energy and passion and noticing where the hotspots are within an organization and that naturally brings a creative tension.

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Kate Nash: But that those organizations that do well of those that notice that that creative tension is a good thing.

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Kate Nash: You know, and if if the rg leaders and their colleagues are able to surface, you know the things that just never get resolved, I often use that example we did a piece of work with a company.

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Kate Nash: And the biggest issue in that company back in the day when we had buildings, you know talking about a company in Canary Wharf in London in the UK.

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Kate Nash: And the biggest issue was the lack of car parking for people with a disability.

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Kate Nash: And so we we help them to think about what the procedure might be, how do they improve that policy, so it wasn't just first come, first served as senior business leaders.

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Kate Nash: But a genuine policies so that employees with disability who drove could access the car park.

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Kate Nash: And then six years later became back to do another audit and guess what the biggest problem was within the organization you got it, it was the car parking.

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Kate Nash: But, but those organizations that choose to notice the really big hotspots that the er geez can notice.

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Kate Nash: And surface, I should say, are those that do well, so I don't know if I answered your question neal you know the professionals like your good selves and necessarily working.

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Kate Nash: With pace, because of your own passion and your energy but through a series on a sequence within a plan that fits the businesses Disability Strategy and the er geez are able to throw up where the new new ways the missile that six inches below the waterline.

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Kate Nash: etc, but yeah the passion and the energy providers, is what I would say.

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Neil Milliken: yeah no, I think I think that's that's absolutely fair they're the catalysts for some of this change.

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Neil Milliken: And while you might already have the ingredients it's their passion that that then sort of shakes it up a little bit it's like it's already got a bottle of pop but what makes it really go foods is the shaking it up and that really wait.

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Neil Milliken: What makes it for this and really get this spectacular 10 yeah Deborah you got it.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): yeah I know we're we're running out of time, but I was curious about this, so I thought, maybe other people would be curious about it, but when you talk about the network, as I get so excited about.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): Just thinking about the amazing comments and conversations and support everybody's given to each other, but Kate how how big is this network, when you I don't and I don't even know how you will answer that I mean.

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Debra Ruh (she/her/hers): You have multinational corporations from all over the world involved in this network and but is there any way that you can you know wreck your hands around it for the audience.

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Kate Nash: yeah well it's interesting that we're just doing a piece of work, to take a fresh look.

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Kate Nash: At the number of employees with disabilities, that we think we reach through the energy leaders, and this will be a very, very, very, very, very conservative estimate.

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Kate Nash: Simply because, as we know, the experience of disability often means that people choose not to share that information, you know after you know pepper space came from the book that I wrote secrets and big news, many years ago.

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Kate Nash: And the one thing that came through from that book is how hard it is for people to own and identify as being a disabled person and how that has a.

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Kate Nash: direct correlation with the number of employees that businesses feel that they have within that business so to answer your question in terms of scale so.

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Kate Nash: pepper space now has 1000 Members across 130 global companies and our estimated reach around disabled people or actual disabled people that they're interacting with is 500,000.

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Kate Nash: The reality is that is just the tip of the iceberg, because if you take each of those companies in turn.

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Kate Nash: They will have whether they know that or not, or whether the data suggests that the truth or not, they will have around 10% of their people.

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Kate Nash: will have a disability, so what you have to do is to do the math and that's what we're doing behind the scenes so we're looking at each of our Member companies.

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Kate Nash: we're looking at the number of employees that they have across the world, we using the 10 to 15% rule.

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Kate Nash: In terms of the numbers of employees that were that they have and so that number will be hugely significant.

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Kate Nash: And what we do in terms of providing those those assets and those collateral, particularly with the investment of JFK and the purple confidence materials is that will be able to give.

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Kate Nash: More quality information.

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Kate Nash: and support resources to our Members to help multiply those conversations and hopefully more and more people are starting to self identify if that's their wish, of course, it's not everybody's wish or desire.

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Kate Nash: And some of us, of course, are not ready for that and that's entirely proper but yeah that's a small tip of the iceberg yeah.

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Neil Milliken: wow yeah that's that's great so thank you very much, Kate remains for us to thank the people that help keep us on air so micro link Barclays access my clear text or people who you know and love so.

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Neil Milliken: Thank you once again, we look forward to you joining us on Tuesday night we're sure it's gonna be a good one.

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Kate Nash: Thank you, thanks love your work.