AXSChat Podcast with Jourdan Saunders, Speech Language Pathologist and CEO & Founder of The Resource Key

Jourdan Saunders, MS, CCC-SLP, has been a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) for over 10 years using her expertise  as the CEO & Founder of The Resource Key which focuses on Inclusive Branding to ensure People with Disabilities are included, and making meaningful connections with brands. 

Jourdan was awarded LinkedIn Top Voices 2020: Equity in the Workplace, established one of the first resource websites for students interested in the field of Speech Language Pathology (www.futureslps.com) which has received recognition worldwide, owner of one of the largest SLP resources groups on LinkedIn with over 18,000 members. Her work has been featured in USA Gymnastics, American Speech Language Hearing Association (ASHA), MarketWatch, Fast Company, PopSugar, Association of University Centers on Disability, and Kennedy Center.

Jourdan has developed inclusive gymnastics programs, reading literacy programs, and is the author of Our Reading Literacy Kitchen: Fresh Approaches to Target Reading Literacy Skills. Her creativity, leadership, and diverse skillset is evident from her work as an advisor to companies and organizations ranging from digital speech therapy, gymnastics, international reading literacy initiatives, culinary industry technology platform, and many more.  

Transcript

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Neil Milliken: hello, and welcome to axschat i'm delighted that we're joined today by Jordan soldiers Jordan is the CEO and founder of the resource key.

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Neil Milliken: And we're delighted to have you with us Jordan you're laughing at your background is in speech and language pathology but so, can you tell us a bit about your work, how you came into the field and what you're doing now, because it sounds really interesting.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Yes, so i've been a speech language pathologist for the past 10 years and one of the biggest things just from working with adults and children was.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I always would see it more from the therapy room instead of what happens next outside of the therapy room.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And when I worked at the school for the blind, it was a great opportunity, because it also had residential to see.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Different settings outside of the therapy room and that was one of the biggest things that children and adults have told me over the years is the lack of feeling included in the Community.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And I saw firsthand when I was working at that school because I was looking from all different settings the biggest piece of.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: What you can do a great therapy have all these different goals, but what happens when you go into the Community and on them very simplistic level of simple things that we're not even realizing we're leaving people out.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: People with Disabilities out those are sometimes even bigger than the goals that I may be working on in therapy and so from there, I started the resource key.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Because I wanted to ensure that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: brands were making sure they're being inclusive and not leaving people with disabilities out.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: and social media is where I started in terms of with marketing because we use social media on a daily basis, so many different people.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: get their information from social media and there's a real opportunity to make a positive impact and social change by starting there and building out.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: through educating daily on through posts or articles and then from there, building with brands and designing and or redesigning Whatever the case may be, so that everyone's included and having that universal design at the core of brains building.

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Neil Milliken: Excellent and, of course, we fully agree with you that social media is a powerful way of connecting people and getting through to our message through to the audience and building that kind of community so.

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Neil Milliken: We.

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Neil Milliken: Why we're here on access to, and and deborah's got a question so.

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Debra Ruh: Well, and Jordan, thank you for being on the show today i'm so impressed with your work and i'm familiar, obviously with your work, because you've been a guest on my show and i've been watching you, you and I found each other on social media.

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Debra Ruh: But why, so why do you think identity is so important to Jordan and what in these conversations and why do you think that.

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Debra Ruh: Because I know you talk a lot about the intersections and representation matters, and even in your signature right now, you have Jordans on your she her so I know you're.

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Debra Ruh: As as I also like to really recognize what's happening with that part of identity, but why is the work that you're doing as a young, you know African American woman living here in the States.

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Debra Ruh: And a speech pathologist, why do you think all these intersections matter to the work that's being done right now.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I think it matters because so much of when you go in different spaces in different environments so much of your identity goes into how you may feel included or excluded.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And you can go into a space and there could be a lot of great inclusion initiatives, but if you're not allowing someone.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: and connecting on a human level and getting to know all of the different things that they represent.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: As an individual or maybe how their background or how they grew up or you know for me how being a black woman and different settings and how did I feel excluded if we're not getting to know those on a.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: On a different level than we have been it really kind of discounts all of the different great initiatives that may be going on, but it becomes more of a surface level and not the depth that we need in order to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Make sure we're having employees feel included making make sure and social environments, you know people are feeling welcome because.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know, accessibility to me really is looking at all these things on a different level in terms of everything's interconnected and and everything plays a role and identity is such a huge piece of what.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: We are as human beings and the intersection ality component as well, and it also adds to the innovation or all these different things when we're building and especially when we look at Ai and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: artificial intelligence and and how it really needs to happen all of that has been built on a lot of what's happening now, and from humans, and so, if we're leaving out identity or all of these different things that are integral.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: into gold on a human level it's really setting up for failure in terms of as we build technology that is really not inclusive.

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Debra Ruh: Have that that is very well said I love.

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Debra Ruh: How, you said all that, because bringing in our different live experiences can really add a lot of value to innovation creativeness because I know that.

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Debra Ruh: A lot of corporations have figured it out, you know if you take people that a group the same way sort of look the same and it haven't looked at a part of a problem as opposed to bringing in a real diverse team diverse culturally.

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Debra Ruh: Diverse you know racially.

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Diverse gender disabilities.

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Debra Ruh: You were bringing different lived experiences to the table, and I think that's so powerful.

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Debra Ruh: And that's one reason why I am committing to make sure that I support young leaders like you and I also love that you're you know young leader this an entrepreneur.

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Debra Ruh: And I like that you, not only are watching out for yourself, you are really making sure other stories are heard in a very empowering way.

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Debra Ruh: And I just appreciate that that's one reason we started access chat because all three of us were committed to making sure other voices were being heard at the time when we started it.

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Debra Ruh: A lot of the accessibility voices at that time were just coming from the states.

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Debra Ruh: And it was there was the term the accessibility rock stars, but.

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Debra Ruh: it's great to have a few rock stars, but the reality is we have 1.3 billion people with disabilities in the world, we need everybody on it all of us on deck making a difference so.

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Debra Ruh: I just think that it's very important in that people do what I know access chat is doing and what you're also doing, Jordan and.

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Debra Ruh: We make sure we're inviting others to the table and we're letting them tell their stories, why do you think that is so important and for other leaders to be doing that for younger leaders and for all leaders, for that matter, that might maybe are not haven't been noticed yet by.

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Debra Ruh: You know the Community the industry.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: yeah I think stories are such.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: A great starting point.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Really, because it's not as technical to a lot of times you know when you're telling stories it's anyone can listen to a story and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: it's your story so there's really no right or wrong and that, and you know when we look at anything surrounding diversity equity inclusion.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Any initiative it's really happening needs to start with stories, because a lot of it is is comfort level going people going out of their comfort level to be able to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: sit and understand a different lens than their own and it's also to when you talk about the intersection ality it's in some of that comes into the stories and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: When we're looking at anything surrounding di a lot of it sometimes is being okay let's take on.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: initiatives related to women or let's take on issues related to black lives matter or let's take on initiative, and while we're kind of segmenting.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: and excluding with it, although we're trying to be more inclusive and and take on, but really it's like let's talk about.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: The intersection ality of all of these different lenses you know you have a black woman i'm not just a woman today and tomorrow on Black you know all of this comes with the package, every day, so.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: When we're looking at that I think that's really core in terms of art let's look at it on.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: An illusionary level with every all of these different lenses and we don't know you know, on a surface level when we meet someone.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: We don't know until their stories told we get to know people more or their backgrounds their origin, how they grew up or you know, maybe their family, they grew up in a different.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Family then maybe you assume that they grew up in and so all of these different things come in the form of stories and storytelling and it's also a very neutral way of just listening to be able to understand there's.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: No right or wrong, you can just sit there and listen all right, you got that right, you were able to implement this, and so you were checking off a box it's really just like sit and listen for a little bit and get to know.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: What it is because that helps to write a better story for how we're developing you know, businesses, whatever it may be, and you have a different lens and you may not go back and implement that initiative that you were about to implement it may look a lot different.

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Debra Ruh: yeah well well said, I have one more question and then i'll turn it over to Neil and Antonio or it's sort of a comment question but.

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Debra Ruh: Last week, on access chat we were talking to about apprenticeships and one thing that.

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Debra Ruh: I I know a lot of us are worried about in our industry, right now, whether you look at it from the accessibility lens or the disability inclusion or both.

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Debra Ruh: there's just not enough people that understand the complexity of these issues in the field, and I know that when.

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Debra Ruh: The United States just per second looking at the lens from our country when the United States started really pressuring corporations to include us the corporations, one of the response was to take out some of our most talented accessibility.

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Debra Ruh: talents and bring them into the corporation, and they could afford to pay him really well and good benefits which yay that's wonderful.

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Debra Ruh: And a lot of these talented people were individuals with disabilities and so when, but at the same time it's sort of gutted our industry we didn't have enough people anyway, so I love the work that a toast has done.

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Debra Ruh: With their apprenticeships and really getting not just taking talented young people and starting to teach them, but it, of course, is a long process and.

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Debra Ruh: We talked about it all last week and they're very focused on making sure diverse people are culturally diverse also or being included and.

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Debra Ruh: I don't know if you've seen that in the time that you've been in this industry as well that there's not enough talent.

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Debra Ruh: And I hate to say it like that, we have the talent, but there's not a lot, not enough knowledge with the talent, to really do the work that we've all committed to, especially if you just look at the lens of.

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Debra Ruh: The amazing Dr Caroline Casey with a valuable 500 I know Neil is on that board of directors we're really excited about that as access chat but you know how How do we make sure that programs like they did with a toast at the apprenticeships.

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Debra Ruh: can be expanded into other countries and other.

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Debra Ruh: corporations, but also that we make sure that you know we're looking at it from these intersection ality and cultural differences and all like you said that all the other intersection ality is the women and stuff.

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Debra Ruh: I know you're not an expert on the apprenticeship so i'm not asking from that i'm just curious what you think about.

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Debra Ruh: corporations that are really stepping up like a toast to make sure that they're not just looking around and trying to grab they're actually trying to make sure there is talented people with diversity all over the world that can help solve some of these big problems.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: yeah that's a great question.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: So my thoughts on that are well there's two pieces, I think the leadership and which that the apprenticeships are developing like there needs to be.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: on disability leaders and all of the different people and the intersection ality that you're trying to represent, I think that needs to be.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: With over some of those different programs, to be able to have program that's sustainable, as well as well as I think there's a big disconnect sometimes you know with.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You have different skills and skill sets that you're wanting, but sometimes you want it immediately where you want the person to already calm and so I think there's definitely value.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: In companies that take the time to build out apprenticeship programs because that's speaking to longevity and investment and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You value and and you want these different individuals to be able to grow with your company and you're willing to do.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: What it takes and you're willing to put in the time and effort, because all those things, require the time and effort it's not a fast quick all right there ready to go and and someone's you know.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: onboarding and I think that's a lot, sometimes with the disconnect of we want things quickly.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And right now and we're not sometimes willing to put in that the time that it takes to be able to get to that point, you know we want people to stay on the job longer, but what are you doing to to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: feel that your employees are valued and also the trainings like what.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Okay, like what trainings are you off right like what things are you asking like your employees, what do you need and are you putting things in place where.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know, because if I see an apprenticeship usually you know you're like okay there's This company has taken the time to not only build out something like this, but.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: they're really wanting to invest and having you know boys long term or making sure that they have the skills that they need it's not just Okay, we can't take you on because.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You don't have what it takes, or we don't have the program or we don't have the time to be able to it's it's, so I think it's some of that goes back to you from my perspective on.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: goes back to like the time like being with the patients and a lot of times we want things very quick and it's the disconnect to have things are moving even faster now, especially when.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: everything happened with Kobe and we're having to shift in different ways that we haven't shifted before and so immediately you're you're wanting a fast something quick.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And so that's kind of the mindset that sometimes it's taken on to on at a business level is we we don't have the time to like wait for.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Training, or like through each of the six weeks for this, a month it's like we want it immediately and so that's what I think in terms of, from my perspective, of how I view.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: um I definitely think there's value in it, but sometimes I think there's a disconnect in terms of the time in it and then investment that sometimes companies wanting to take based on where they feel they need to invest in.

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Neil Milliken: Some of this is really hard because.

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Neil Milliken: Particularly in our profession, where we have now this huge.

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Neil Milliken: tsunami of demand, because people are waking up to the fact that they need to do, accessibility and they're desperate for skills, because their organization doesn't have it they're going out to market.

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Neil Milliken: And they're not finding people and so to a certain extent, what we need to encourage them to do is to actually think that.

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Neil Milliken: That the the time trying to find a good candidate could well be invested in training, because actually what you then get is someone that believes that you believe in them.

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Neil Milliken: Rather than getting people that don't really.

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Neil Milliken: meet the needs or don't really have the skills or the well rounded training and that's quite often the case, and it's something that sort of is a challenge for the for the accessibility industry because there is demand because there aren't enough people.

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Neil Milliken: You do get people that are in roles and they're not necessarily qualified to do.

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Neil Milliken: that's not the same as imposter syndrome, by the way, because we all have that we all believe that we're in roles that we're not qualified to do right.

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Neil Milliken: Because I think that that in a in a job, like this, where we're breaking new ground, all the time there's a good deal of discomfort.

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Neil Milliken: In some of the things that we're doing because they knew.

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Neil Milliken: And because they haven't been done before and we're having to push the boundaries, both for our own personal boundaries and organizational and societal boundaries, so I think that.

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Neil Milliken: You know, we need to understand the difference between you know feeling challenged and maybe not totally qualified and and genuinely people without the right skills to do the job because accessibility is technical.

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Neil Milliken: So we want.

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Neil Milliken: We We definitely want to invest in the long term, skills, because we desperately need them, and not just as our organization, the reason we set up the the apprenticeship standard was because we believe that you know you need a wider pool and it's, not just for our organization.

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Neil Milliken: On top of that, I think that when you are able to take people at a level below university education, you are.

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Neil Milliken: Almost by default going to get a much more diverse candidates, because you're opening up the possibility to people that haven't had the same sort of level of privilege and opportunity in life.

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Neil Milliken: And so that's really important to me because I believe that everyone should have the chance to get a career in tech and get training.

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Neil Milliken: And as as we just went through last week, you know that on the job training enables you to have money to be able to do this and and not everyone can afford to go to university, especially.

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Neil Milliken: In places where fees are so high likely, the US, where you're going to settle yourself with many 10s of thousands of dollars of debt so, so I think there's real value in that.

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Neil Milliken: there's value in creating a resource pool of people that can make the world more accessible, at the same time, I think that we want to also look at.

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Neil Milliken: How we can break up some of this into chunks that we can speed things up, because there is this transformation going on there, all of these demands and.

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Neil Milliken: And so we both need deep experts and people with expertise in a particular area that matches their job.

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Neil Milliken: So, so those are sort of the things that we're we're thinking about and looking at now and then just going back to your point about intersection ality and that I think that's really super important as well because.

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Neil Milliken: When we were doing work with the Institute of coding, we were.

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Neil Milliken: Which is a UK Public Private Partnership with universities and so i'm trying to get people and broadening participation into science, technology.

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Neil Milliken: Engineering math subjects.

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Neil Milliken: that the focus was really how do we get more women in.

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Neil Milliken: And, and they asked me a blue eyed blonde six foot tall white male to be the head of the diversity board and and I said yes, because I.

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Neil Milliken: I, I have some hidden diversity characters Am I have a couple of hidden disabilities, but what I really pushed for was for us to take a wide view of diversity, and I think that what we want is.

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Neil Milliken: organizations that are reflective of society at large, so so when we talk about diversity it's in all of its glory it's it's like a mirror.

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Neil Milliken: to society and when we've got organizations that reflect this is it living, then our job is more or less done, but since we don't we still got chops and we still got work to do.

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Neil Milliken: So how do you go about through your social media campaigns and your branding working with clients to.

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Neil Milliken: to sort of get those messages out there and encourage the clients to attract that diverse audience that diverse workforce, etc.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: yeah one of the biggest things is is that educational piece.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Because a lot of times.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: People are sometimes hesitant, or they don't know what it is that they need to or they think that they're doing like a wonderful job where they're at or they've done in and so it's just really like educating in.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: very short bites and snippets of information to not overload because there's so much information and especially for me i'm very you know.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: When I do something it's very much like aggressive and just i'm going and i'm not stopping until you know I get it whatever it is done, but I.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: When you are not looking at from that lens it's like you have to break it up and so that's one of the biggest thing that is super important is breaking up the educational information and aligning as it relates to the industry.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And so I think that's really huge because a lot of times.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: we're starting up people are starting at the point from what they know you know just as human beings, I think we started the point we connect a lot of times to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: People that may have similar experiences or oh I I like that kind of ice cream to or things like that, but it's that connection piece, so a lot of times if it's.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Specific industry finding information that is aligned with that industry, so if it's you know fashion industry, you know there's maybe an article or educational material that's aligned.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: With fashion industry or Oh, this is, you know some of the companies, these are different ways that maybe they're designing products or from a marketing standpoint, including people with disabilities on so I may not be sending educational information as it relates to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know, like a car company or something like that, because it's not going to be very relevant and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And that person particular from that particular perspective because it's not aligned with their industry and they're not going to be able to have.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: An understanding of where to start or maybe some different ideas, and so I think that's one of the biggest things that is key, is aligning to make sure that information is it's relevant it's still moving forward and it's also information that they can digest.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Because.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: A lot of what time is is is we're getting overwhelmed they're wanting to move quickly.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: and fast and whatever direction that may may seem may be a good fit but it's really like quickly and fast is great, but making sure quickly and fast in a in a in a direction that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Is is is making sense, and that will be sustainable and not quickly and fastly we did it and now we're on to something else.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Because I think all of this is learning, as well as you're Moving on, because all of its continuing to change every day and and I think that's something that I always stress as well it's we're learning together, you know there's things that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You may see that I may not have seen or something that may have changed that I may have changed, and I think if we create spaces and safe spaces and environments to be able to have these conversations and to know that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: we're still learning, even though this is what i'm focused on and making sure like people with disabilities, I align with different people with disabilities and also to that have lived experiences because i'm non disabled.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And i'm in different industries so that's The other thing like if it's i'm saying fashion, because that's coming to top line, but if it's fashion, someone in the fashion industry we've lived experience um.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Because it's really all about aligning and then you have it from the perspective in those stories that we talked about and different experiences, and I think that is one of the key things.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: That is important in terms of moving forward, because yeah we just can't I mean even as speech language pathologist accessibility.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Looked a lot different when I was solely doing direct therapy I.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: worked at the school for the blind, you know, I was adapting books to make them tactile or I was making sure that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Each student had whatever they need to make sure they're successful in the school environment, but I didn't know anything about the intricacies of website accessibility or um.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know i'll i'll turn it of tasks are all tax like I knew nothing about these things, so I learned, I was learning all of that, when I was you know shifting gears and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: that's I think also access was like Oh, do you have X.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Access was used in terms of access to resources that you need or or financially, maybe we're not able to afford this piece of technology So what are the other options that were able to to use, and so I think that's really important too, because I think sometimes.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: People feel like they need to know it all like, in order to move forward, and I think that becomes a barrier versus getting started working with.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Businesses like you know, Neil like what were you have you all have created is sounds incredible and and aligning I think.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: aligning with different people to know like even when people come to me and like website accessibility.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I there's you know I can reach reach out to an organization that I have already.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Created relationships with so building relationships is super important because you're not going to know it from every single aspect and you need to be able to.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: not drop the ball and say hey I don't know i'm sorry because that may be the opportunity that the person is ready to move forward and then now it's becoming more difficult because they're not able to get what they need.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: A lot quicker than now they're going to have to go out and find someone, which is fine, but a lot of times.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know I may not know, and I may not be able to say I don't know, but if i've created this network of different professionals that are experienced and have years of experience and they're in these different spaces that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: A client that's coming to me is asking and i'm not able to provide you those services i'm going to say if I had if I know someone to be able to refer out so that we can keep everything moving and there's not that drop and and someone gets pressured because now becoming more challenging.

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Antonio Santos: The job of diversity leadership in organizations is definitely not new and and some organizations have been trying to move into the space, creating frameworks project all over over the years.

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Antonio Santos: And, but today, and to the topic of our conversation we seen brands addressing the topic of of inclusion, creating products.

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Antonio Santos: Making campaigns trying to look at the quitting time to serve the by the Community, but sometimes people look at them okay this organization is selling services that I like I want to buy maybe.

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Antonio Santos: I want to apply for a job and then people get disappointed because, like organization, who just created this amazing product that I can use.

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Antonio Santos: does want to hire me or when I apply for a job I don't see anyone that looks even like me and then I realized wow I don't know if they're here for me for society or just for my money So how do we, how do we address this.

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Antonio Santos: Yes.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: that's that's a great question so disability leadership or I go back to making sure that you have advisors and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Different people that you're trying to represent and diversity equity inclusion, you need to have each of those individuals different different lens on within your team or on your board as well as I think it goes down to even what you're saying in terms of even on a smaller level.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Looking at the framework of how because this stuff is embedded like I don't.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: When I look I di or diversity equity inclusion, I see it as embedded in the work that i'm doing and embedded in everything that i'm doing you know from a individual level of.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: out in the Community to a business level in terms of embedded in the process, so, because if you're doing a campaign sometimes you have these big campaigns.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: But even on the smallest level, you can sometimes tell if let's say you have a video and you're talking about maybe.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: People with disabilities but you're not including them in the video and if you're including them in the video the representation of how you included them.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: In the video is not authentic maybe to their experience so maybe it could be the simplest thing as on the wheelchair is not does not look how a wheelchair, maybe it's.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: animated cartoon or whatever it may be, and it doesn't even look like what it is.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: supposed to look like So those are smaller things that like people can see through Okay, did you advice, did you get with someone and advise and different types of disabilities um so anyways I say that to say it just needs to be.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Not only from a campaign level i'm embedding it throughout your process so onboarding you know, do you have materials have you watched the interview process, do you have you asked if anyone needs to combinations that's for anyone but embedding it.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: and giving them opportunity to say yes or no i'm not just if you think someone has a disability.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: And then one word, you know, after some is onboarding in your positions really just continuing to have different.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: workshops or different collaborative conversations or or sessions, where you can come together, but I think it really just has to be embedded from.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: On every level, in order for it to continue because, if not it's piece meld and you're having a campaign one month and then two months later, you may be doing a training and and that's it until the next month about maybe a.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Particular campaign or another one so.

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Debra Ruh: Jordan.

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Debra Ruh: we're almost.

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Debra Ruh: out but well, but I want to ask you one more question and then i'm going to turn it over to kneel but to close, but.

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Debra Ruh: I remember, Dr Greg Vander Haydn who i'm a big fan of he wants said years ago at ieee meeting that we needed to be more welcoming.

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Debra Ruh: To new people moving into the industry and he made a comment that we have to stop eating our young, which is a terrible thing to say, but.

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Debra Ruh: I found that when I came into the disability industry as a person that looked like I didn't have a disability, I like Neil have invisible disabilities, plus i'm a mom.

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Debra Ruh: Of a daughter with disabilities in a wife of a husband that has aged into disabilities but.

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Debra Ruh: It was really, really not welcoming I almost felt like some people were actually trying to trip me up.

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Debra Ruh: I mean, I was shocked at because i'd come from the financial industry, which I hadn't it i'd experienced some of that some of that, but I was just surprised because I thought.

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Debra Ruh: Well, I actually can help don't you know want me to come in and help you but.

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Debra Ruh: I was just curious how if you've experienced some of that you're obviously much younger than me but you've come into the industry later than me obviously because you're younger than me but.

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Debra Ruh: I believe it's so important that we welcome entrepreneurs with them without disabilities that want to make a difference to our Community.

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Debra Ruh: with open arms, and we support them, we tried to tell their stories sort of like what i've been doing with you because I love your work, I love your writing I love your energy.

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Debra Ruh: But I was just curious if you hopefully had a better experience moving into the industry and that you felt more welcomed, but I believe that's a huge issue that we need to look at around the world, and so I just wanted to let you address that and then we'll turn it over you to close.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: yeah that's a really great question yeah i've had you know pushback in terms of.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: What you're that's not correct or or how would you this is right or or are you like even experienced in this or things like that and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know i'm just like oh Thank you so much for your feedback on that it truly takes a community, because it really does um and.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I you know welcome any resources that you have to continue my egg you know exploration or education, so I don't really.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Take it personal I think at this point i'm because I can understand from the other side, where it's like maybe you have different people entering because.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Oh it's like everyone's talking about it or This is like.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: di is like a buzzword now and, like you're just jumping on the bandwagon, maybe for the money, so people have different perspectives of like why people are entering and I think sometimes that could cause like.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: Are you really in it for the long haul or you really like just to be in because it's it's popular something now, and so, for me, I just.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I I have had different experiences, but I continue to just push forward because.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: You know the work that i'm doing is not only an in front it's also behind the scenes, and I think that's a lot of times people don't realize, a lot of the stuff that.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: happens behind the scenes, is just as important in terms of what you're doing with things that maybe people see more articles or or whatever it may be so.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: i'm not going anywhere, so I don't really let it bother me, whereas I could see how like maybe if it was some different, and I have developed tougher skin, I think, from being.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: In different environments where i've had to kind of you know, go through problem solver troubleshoot so that's a great question and yeah I.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: I think i'm i'm excited about continuing but yeah, it is a good question and, yes, and answer your question I have had it but i'm not letting it stop me.

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Debra Ruh: Welcome others behind you, because that's what we all have to do so.

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Jourdan Saunders (she/her), The Resource Key: me, let me get it everybody.

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yeah.

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Neil Milliken: yeah probably because I mean don't give up, I obviously we we respect the nothing.

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Neil Milliken: about us without us mantra but that doesn't mean exclusively us.

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Neil Milliken: Right so so so that's the thing, and yes of course we have to work with and for the Community, but it doesn't mean that the Community is a silo so.

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Neil Milliken: You know don't be discouraged by by these things, and we encourage people to come forward to work as part of this movement so.

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Neil Milliken: Thank you very much for your time today it's been a real pleasure we'll look forward to chatting with you on Twitter and we also need to thank Barclays access my clear text and Mike running for keeping the lights on and supporting us all this time.

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Thank you for having me.