AXSChat Podcast with Bright M Bwalya, a 30-year, Software Engineer, Mental Health and Epilepsy Advocate

My name is Bright M Bwalya, a 30-year, Software Engineer, Mental Health and Epilepsy Advocate. I have a strong passion for Epilepsy & Mental Health Advocacy, with a strong desire to use technology to address common issues in many chronic conditions noticed here in Zambia.

I am the 3rd born in a family of 7 and growing up, I didn’t know about Epilepsy, I only got to hear of it after meeting one person who had it, later in grade 8. Fast-forward 2011 I was enrolled at the Copperbelt University to pursue a Degree in Information technology and as my studies went on, my love for technology grew. When I was researching on what project to work on for my 5th Year dissertation in 2016, I started experiencing seizures and I was later diagnosed with Epilepsy in March of 2016. Struggles arose brought by the condition ranging from the stigma name calling and mocking to people not knowing what to do when I suffer a seizure, a significant incident is when I suffered a seizure and I woke up to an exorcism. That opened my eyes to the fact that people di not know what this condition which was affecting many, actually was.

My struggles with Epilepsy inspired me to switch my final year project to one which could help me help those around me know what to do when I suffer a seizure. I call it “Seizure Assistant”, a mobile phone application built to be a health management and experience sharing platform which also allows patients to get help before or during a seizure. This help can be requested for either by a button push or auto seizure detection through a synchronized smart wrist band. The application then does three things; Send a preset SOS Message to a Set Emergency Contact alerting them of the seizure, with the patient’s location included for easier tracking. The patient’s phone will then play an SOS Sound to gain the attention of the people around. In response to the noisy phone, someone will pick it up and what they will find is a series of instructions on how to provide First Aid care to the patient experiencing a seizure with their Name, Condition Type and Emergency Contact Details included. This and many other features help Epileptics better manage their condition while teaching the masses about the condition thereby reducing the stigma surrounding it. The application houses a feature called “Community Feeds”, a feature that allow users to communicate and share the issues they are struggling with and get expert help right on the application, as well as response of encouragement and advise from fellow patients. The Feature works different from other platforms in that a user is free to share their complaints or queries in anonymity, if need be, however the help to them is still provided. This is useful for those not ready to open up about the conditions they are struggling with. This would help address the high rates of suicides which have rocked the country recently.

Due to a misunderstanding of my condition and effects of medicine, I was fired from a job and out of desperation, I took on another which had me work

Transcript

0:00

This is a draft transcript produced live at the event and corrected for spelling and basic errors. It is not a commercial transcript.

NEIL: 0:05

Hello and welcome to Axschat. I'm delighted that we are joined today by Bright Bwalya, who is joining us from Zambia. Bright is the brains behind Seizure Assistant and was at Zero Conference in Vienna earlier this year where Debra ran into him and immediately fell in love with the concept and said we must have Bright on Axschat. So, welcome Bright, it's great to have you with us. Can you tell us a bit about your background on what Seizure Assistant is and the backstory to how you ended up in Vienna pitching to all our colleagues.

BRIGHT: 0:47

Right. Thank you so much for having me, first of all. It's a pleasure to be here and indeed a great honour to be here and speak to all of you. Bright Bwalya, yes, where to start from. Lengthy story this one. So, I started out as just an ordinary kid who knew very little about the epilepsy world, as we would have it until I got to university, that was in 2013, when I went to the Copperbelt University here in Zambia to pursue a degree in Information Technology. My years there were all smooth, you know smooth sailing, everything was going well until we hit 2016, when I was about to hit my final year project phase where I needed to find a topic to do a research around and build a software to showcase a little to the institution that I've grasped all they have thought and all of that. This one day I had gone for a certain conference and seated next to a couple friends, I was there in the blazing sun and all of a sudden, I wanted to reach for a bottle of water and next thing it happened almost as if it's in a blink, next thing I opened my eyes and people are asking me, are you okay and in shock and surprise of asking what happened, why are you asking me if I'm okay, I look at myself, I'm dirty and I figured, what exactly happened here, I was reaching for a bottle of water. Next thing, the very day, the same thing happens where I'm at a friend's place we're having dinner and again, same thing, are you okay and I'm asking what exactly happened? And so, one of the guys starts calling another friend of our ours to explain to them what's going on and he tells me, Bright in the morning, go to the hospital. And I get to the hospital but, the doctor there was rather incompetent, I would say, because I was there struggling to explain exactly what had happened to me, but I was still struggling to find the words to describe something that I wasn't seeing, I mean when the seizure happened, I wasn't aware I couldn't see, I didn't know what was going on and the people around me didn't tell me much. But right there in the chair in the doctor's office seizure. And the doctor just says, oh, oh, so that's what you meant.

DEBRA: 3:19

Oh.

BRIGHT: 3:20

And yeah, and that is what I meant. And, the doctor doesn't explain anything. Just gets one of these papers, writes on them carbamazepine, two tablets in the morning, two tablets in the afternoon. Go to the pharmacy and tell them to give you this medication and I'm like, okay. Are you going to tell me anything more. Nothing. But the seizures were quite intense and they started to happen, I started to have about, I started to have maybe five or four seizures in a single day and curious Bright is quite curious. So, I started to read around this stuff. What does it mean when this is happening? And I started to notice certain trends that were a common factor whenever a seizure is about to happen and when I read around those I understood they were called auras. I was getting an aura prior to a seizure. And for me, the aura is just 30 seconds you know to a seizure, I got an aura right now, 30 seconds from now I have a seizure, that is how it happens. So, I noticed those and one day I decided, you know what I'm going to record myself. So, an aura was coming and I just pressed record and I recorded myself having a seizure and I went on to read what it meant. What those things were that I was having and I discovered that was a simple partial seizure that I was experiencing. But because I was spending so much time reading about epilepsy, school and suffering, I needed to do a project in school around IT but I needed to create some solution for some problem. So, I decided to dump my initial project that I wanted to do, that my supervisor recommended and said, I want to work on something epilepsy related. But where did that idea come from? Easy, I was walking to the computer lab one day, taking my stroll with some friends and we're having a good time and right there in a blazing sun a seizure hits and I fall to the ground and I'm waking up, cleaning myself up and I'm, you know, gaining my cognitive sense and there are stretched arms over me with a lot of exorcism happening, out in the name of Jesus, out and I am like, oh, I'm okay. So, these fellows, these fellows, think I'm demon possessed. Out, we cast you out. We bind you in the name of Jesus and I'm like, my word. It was both funny and sad because, I was looking at the number of folk who didn't know about epilepsy and I was thinking how many more people go through this suffering when they need actual help. Because my seizures were not so intense that they needed help there and then. But I thought there are other people who need help. So I thought, right there in the moment, I thought, what if I could create a software that would allow me to call for help, just before a seizure happens but after I call for help, the application would be able to give the instructions to these people around me on how to provide the right First Aid care to me. So, I'm walking, I get my aura, I just push a button on my phone, my phone gets into a panic state. Panic state does three things, sends an SMS to my parents, first of all, whoever is set as my emergency contact. Tells them Bright has had a seizure, gives them my location, starts playing a sound you know, to get the attention of those around me. When they get to the phone, they find the instructions on how to take care of me in that moment. Like, the right First Aid care. Not the exorcisms, no. If he were wearing a tight shirt, loosen it. Fan him a bit. Don't restrain him with so much power. Take off his shoes. Don't put it on his mouth. Remove that. Don't put a cooking stick on his mouth. Such things. Because there are a lot of myths around epilepsy in Zambia that you would be shocked if I were to tell you. So, yeah, that's basically the short but lengthy story, I could tell you who Bright is and how I got to where I am with my innovation and advocacy work which we can discuss further on.

DEBRA: 7:35

Wow. Wow. It's just such an amazing story. I remember when I saw you at Zero Project. I was blown away. And also, I interviewed a congressman Toney Coella, on my show years ago and he grew up in Portugal and the same thing happened to him. He's much older than you obviously Bright. He's like me, he's elderly. But, in Portugal, that's the same thing, when he started having seizures, they made, they would not, they made, he was going to be a clergymen, they made him quit because you cannot be part of the Catholic church if you were possessed by demons or have epilepsy, but that was a long time ago, right? But, I was, I don't know why, I just sort of thought that maybe things had gotten better and then I heard your story, and I thought on, this is still happening. But let my turn it back over to Neil because I know Neil probably wanted to comment and I jumped in. Sorry, Neil.

NEIL: 8:32

No, no, it's okay. So, I failed again with the mute button. So, yes, I mean, it's a do not sprinkle with holy water. You know, all of those instructions, right? So, but, I am sort of shocked but in a way not that surprised because you know, there is still a lot of ignorance around conditions like epilepsy, even in the UK, people are not well educated on what to do when someone has a seizure. Right? You know, there is a lot of sort of urban myths, if you like, right? So, people are well meaning. None of this stuff happens because they don't want to help. But, I think it's really important that, you know you're able to give the instructions from the phone. I think that's a great idea and I know that you know that sort of hooking into the phone system is also important and this is something that I might connect you with some colleagues later that do stuff around sort of emergency telephone and all of that kind of stuff.

BRIGHT: 9:49

Awesome.

NEIL: 9:50

So, I think that it's really useful also that you're sort of using the geo location. So, what phones are you using? Are you on android platform or IOS or are you platform agnostic?

BRIGHT: 10:08

Yes, so when this started it was quite small. It was just an android app that I got and it only had one feature. And, now, this began to expand, the more I did my advocacy work because I started doing advocacy work after leaving university. I found people were still struggling with a few things. After I got out of my own depression, whatever I started talking to more people. Now, I noticed that we needed to cater for people beyond just android but also provide for IOS but not only that, we needed to cover for people who don't have phones. We have children who have epilepsy and in Zambia I notice that we had a lot of these young children who are pulled away from social engagements, pulled away from school, simply because the parent is not doing that out of love. They are thinking, if I let my child get outside and play and they have a seizure, I won't know and I won't know how to, the people around them won't know how to respond, so they pull them back. Same thing even with schools. So, I thought what if we would do a smart watch, a small simple smart watch and a neuro detector that is able to auto detect the seizure and just communicate with the watch. The watch would display the instructions while the watch communicates with the parent to say your child has had a seizure. So, we are running on android, IOS and building custom watches, not the expensive ones that most people can't afford. But we are trying to build simple small watches that we can provide to people at affordable costs. Yes. So, we are not dedicated to any platform, no.

NEIL: 11:55

And of course, affordability is really key.

BRIGHT: 12:00

Definitely.

NEIL: 12:01

So, what sort of price are the watches coming out at, at the moment?

BRIGHT: 12:12

The watches are still a concept that we are perfecting, so we haven't attached a price to it and the same goes with devices. The seizure detection devices. We were trying the neurotechnology. But turns out that neurotechnology is actually quite expensive to implement. You know, but we are now trying something called HVR, that's hattrick variation technology. I was wearing a device today, I just took it off, I have got a few pictures of it on my phone and I can send that. We are trying to utilise that so the costs are lower and that is why even if a watch we are building our own so that the prices are lower. But we haven't any we haven't set any price yet.

DEBRA: 13:01

So, Bright, I know that you and Neil asked you this but you were invited to come and present at the Zero Project. How did that unfold?

BRIGHT: 13:17

Well, it was an amazing experience, I would say. It was an amazing experience. I found myself speaking on a platform that I didn't even know I was going to be speaking at, when I originally found myself at the Zero Platform at the Zero Project conference. I didn't know I was going to be part of the people speaking on the innovations in Africa, Asia. That's why, if you watch a video even my name tag is written using a marker. Somebody just heard Bright speak and they are there on the platform, go and speak.

DEBRA: 13:50

Wow. Wow. I'm really proud to be an ambassador for Zero Project and one thing I love about what they are doing is they are finding young leaders like you. And one thing, I mean I appreciate your work so much and I want to dovetail something Neil said earlier. Neil was saying even there in the UK people do not know how to respond if they see someone have a seizure. We don't know how to do in the US either. If I saw someone having a seizure, I honestly would not know what to do which is troubling, I would hope and it seems to me, Bright as people are trying to you know flee the demons and do all of the things that they want to do to help you they could maybe even accidentally kill you with some of the things they are doing. Just making sure we all understand that. But, it's fascinating to me because, I believe, I hope that in the United States that when you see somebody has a seizure, you don't think they are possessed by demons but probably there are some parts where they do think that. But at the same time, I never talked about it until you talked it really when Neil made his comment. But I never thought about, if I saw somebody have a seizure, would I know what to do. I would know how to pick up my phone and call 911 but I would hope, I would know. But, that's such an important point. Because, whether you're developing or developed countries, it doesn't matter, the reality is, society doesn't really know what to do with epilepsy. And epilepsy can be very, very dangerous. I mean to your brain and so, I'm fascinated with that. But, what I also want to be concerned about is, you as an entrepreneur. So, you're an entrepreneur with disabilities, you openly talk about your epilepsy, but what I wonder is how do we, as a global community, get behind young leaders like you, to really help you be successful with this because you have created something that you needed but that you need so many other people need it. You're getting amazing attention. You're getting invited to television shows. You're getting invited to radio shows. You're invited to Axschat. The best Tweet show in the world. Sorry. But, I mean people are seeing you but still no money is flowing into your pockets and so, I'm just going to bring up this fact that so often we have these really powerful entrepreneurs that have these wonderful ideas that can really help society and they starve to death. And I know as somebody who has been at this for a long time, I've really, really, really struggled with cashflow. And so, how do we and maybe, I'm going to ask this question to Neil as well. But how do we, as a community surround entrepreneurs like you? Make sure you have what you need to be successful and that your idea is not just plucked away from you by smarter business people you know, that just have more experience than you. But to me that's one of our biggest problems, is that I just keep entrepreneurs being stepped all over with their good ideas and I don't want that to happen to you, Bright. So, maybe this is a question for both you and Neil. So, I'll start with you Bright?

BRIGHT: 17:11

Alright. For me I feel support is needed, as you have mentioned. I mean the Bright you're seeing here is sitting with five international what, on this application now, we are talking about five and trophies.

DEBRA: 17:28

Was there money taped around the?

BRIGHT: 17:30

I've got certificates here that were given. I've got IBE is given something here, an actual thing. I've got a trophy right here.

DEBRA: 17:41

Was there money wrapped around the trophies?

BRIGHT: 17:44

I have the trophy but where is that the money around it?

DEBRA: 17:47

Yes.

BRIGHT: 17:49

But in as much as all these organisations are giving all this support, I mean all these recognition and all of that. Support would be great. Sometimes even to just stand, start you know, a contribution platform where people can give towards this. If Bright stands as a solo entity and says, guys I'm doing this and it's helping people in this way, can you contribute towards it? All they see is some guy who is willing to make a quick buck. But imagine the organisations that are giving me these trophies, if they were to come together and say, there is an innovator who is doing this and we've actually vetted him and he's actually genuine and when you give the money, because what I've always said that the my heart is so poured out into helping people that even if an organisation were to come and say, Bright, we'll raise the money for you, but we'll handle that cash and how it's being out utilised and you just come to us and say, now I need this, we release. Now, I need -- if they were to come out and say Bright, let's work with you in that way, I'd be like, by all means, as long as the innovation comes out and it's helping people. People are dying on a daily because of the wrong aid being given to them. I just got word today that somebody's niece or something died because she is living with epilepsy but whenever had a seizure the family believes when they see her arms turned like that, there is a myth that when they stay in that position then they'll forever be locked. So, people are forever pulling her and fighting her and she wakes up from that, arms are paining her like no man's business and epilepsy First Aid tells you to say restrain gently because you fight them with force, they are going to respond with force because, you know. And so, twisting an arm this way and the owner wants to twist it back that way. Now, imagine the kind of pain that's going to be. Now, I just want the innovation out there. So, if organisations can come together and say, you know let's raise some money for this youngster. Let the money come through us and then we push it to him. If I do it as me, people won't give, people won't give, no.

DEBRA: 19:51

Oh.

NEIL: 19:52

So, I think raise funding is always fraught with challenges, right? And I think that the venture capital system that has dominated over many years is very much flawed and you know that it's caused all sorts of challenges within society as a whole and it's not necessarily about which is the best technology that wins. It's the best funded technology that wins.

BRIGHT: 20:32

Yes.

NEIL: 20:34

So, quite often, innovations that are superior get put out of business because another organisation can buy the market because they have got access to funding. So, funding is tremendously important but and you know, the flow of funding, you know, predominantly goes to, you know a small group of people in a small part of the world, you know. And you know, each female only a tiny, tiny, fraction of that and then, there need to be other ways. So, there are obviously people recognise this. We are not the first to talk about it. And that's why we have crowd funding but it's not the same, you know, crowd funding is hard. Right? Crowd funding is something that I'm sure you have looked at that, you know, some campaigns capture the imagination and do tremendously well but you know, others suffer. So, I think there does need to be a better way of funding social enterprises or enterprises and technologies that have a social purpose, right? There are you know, and also directing people to the sources of funding that do support this as well because I think, actually it's an absolute maze of complexity and lack of clarity, when you go searching for sources of funding because, you know, can I qualify for this grant. You know, you could spend as much money as you possibly get from a grant just seeking advice from people on how to fill out the forms to get some of this done. So, I think you have got the venture capitalists on one side and then you have got the government and state funded organisations that mean well but wrap a whole air of bureaucracy around it and there needs to be some kind of better middle ground and I know Debra and I talked before about actually the need for you know, proper disability inclusive venture capital funds and I know there are people in the UK that are doing stuff and I am talking to a few other people about the same topic. But, what it needs to be. That said, I think that stuff in healthcare because this is slightly different to a lot of the things we talk about in accessibility. Stuff in healthcare has an advantage when it comes to attracting funding compared to accessibility tools. I think that people that finance organisations understand healthcare better than they understand accessibility and that they can unfortunately see the dollar signs when they see stuff in healthcare more than they can see the dollar signs when they come to accessibility. So, I think that in that respect, what you're doing with a healthcare focus, you know, bodes well for you. And I know Debra has got another question. But I do think that the sort of whole funding infrastructure is both a challenge but also an opportunity for you.

DEBRA: 24:25

I just wanted to comment on what you were saying Beil, because one thing that I know that I've learned all by my big self is that cash is often not the only thing that you need. I remember with Tech Access, the company I created before me we were always you know; we were always struggling with cashflow. Even though we were doing wonderful things like you Bright, I had gotten so many awards. I almost felt sorry sometimes for the other awardees because I was up, I always won. And it was a beautiful blessing but I was struggling to pay my bills and pay my team. So, I just want to point out that something that I know for sure as an entrepreneur is that money is not the only answer. You do have to have good funds and flow but you need the support because there are so many things that you have to know how to do as an entrepreneur and you better do them right because if you screw this up you make sure your books are right. So, there are just so many moving parts. So, one thing that I'm happy that we're doing at Billion Strong is we are going to be creating a programme for entrepreneurs with disabilities that discuss all the moving parts. There are so many moving parts in keeping a business you know, thriving and viable. And so, I just wanted to say not only do we need cashflow and do we need to fund the right people but we also need the mentors that are stranding with us, helping us learn all the stuff that we have to learn as entrepreneurs because I one time had an investor say to me, at the time which hurt when she said it but it also was very valuable information and that she said you have successfully raised money in the past Debra. She said and yet when you raised that money it didn't take you to good cashflow. So, why should I give you more money now. And I just I remember her saying that and I just, I didn't really know how to answer it. But I thought it was a beautiful question. And so, I did a lot of thinking about that. And, actually went back and had to lay off some of my team because the reality was, I couldn't afford the team that I had. And it's sad, when you have to do layoffs, especially with purpose driven work. But I just want to remind the audience that there are so many moving parts when it comes to being an entrepreneur and funding is one and making sure we know how to use the funding so it actually advances us to a next level. That's a little bit more difficult. So, I just wanted to point that out and I think we have opportunities here to like with Billion Strong and others that are making these efforts to make sure that not only are we behind you Bright, with making sure you have funding but that you know, how to make decisions that will continue to enhance the purpose of the work. So, I'm not trying to complicate things but just something that I personally struggled with. So, and I don't know Bright if you have run into any of that in your work but that's just something I've struggled with over the years.

BRIGHT: 27:41

Yes, I've seen a couple of that, you know, pop up here and there because I remember, the first grant that I ever got, I actually did receive a grant from government here in Zambia, but funny enough that grant has not been handed into, you know my palms to say here is the money, start using it. It's money I had to fight for to actually have at least, to even pay the very first guys who built the first application, I had to fight for that. But, I later discovered, you know money is not all that I need because I have been looking to other people to entrepreneurship and requesting their sit downs just to sit down and hear more. What exactly do I need for a successful team, to be able to be told, this is productive team and who is a must and who is a give or take, to include on a team and all of that. That definitely is something I've come to realise, yes.

DEBRA: 28:47

Yes. It's just complicated. But, I say let's talk more about what your app does. Because, it's really exciting what you did with the app. You said, you have 12 features, 14 features; do you mind telling us?

BRIGHT: 29:02

12.

DEBRA: 29:03

12, do you mind just telling us walking through what the app does a little bit more, I think the audience might appreciate that.

BRIGHT: 29:12

One of the common misconceptions about Seizure Assistant is that it does only one thing, call for help when you have a seizure but that's actually one of the many other features. I tried to handle or look at epilepsy from a holistic point of view and my advocacy work helped me to begin to look at features, the more I discussed issues regarding epilepsy with a number of people. So, we have got a feature called Seizure 101 as a feature 1, that we can talk about. Seizure 101 is just basically there to teach people about seizures, you know. I discovered that many people who are living with epilepsy who don't even know what a seizure is. You ask them, do you know what a seizure is and they are like, oh what, oh, okay. So, let's start from seizure 101, what is it? What causes it? How does it happen? What does it look like? And then we've got types of seizures, that's Feature 2, which now classifies these features in their various categories, we've got focus seizures, generalised seizures, and all these other unnamed seizures and then under various focal, you have the various focal seizures, focal aware, focal unaware and all of that, we are just trying to get the users to be more informed about the seizures, the type of seizures that are there because a person getting know the kind of seizure they experience is equally quite important for them to be able to know how to manage their condition. And then we have got features like reminders, which many people really love. Epilepsy is one that requires you to take medication on time. You are not supposed to be you know, shifting with time and what not. So, I added a reminders feature but I thought instead of people using the phone reminders or the phone alarm system, let's add it on the application and one would ask but why? Simple, I want the application to be able to remind the person when to take the medication while highlighting which medication it is and in what quantity but away from that the application is automatically sending a message to whoever is set as an emergency contact to tell them to say, it's time for Bright to take medicine. Why? Accountability is supposed to be there so that those people get tired from taking medicine on a daily you have that extra voice that they can hear from to say, hey have you taken your medicine, I just got the SMS. Have you taken your medicine. And that feature also works in correlation with another feature called my personal pharmacy or inventory, whatever you want to name it. That is something that helps me keep track of the medication have. So, for instance, I've got here a box of medication, this is sodium valproate. There are about nine strips of medication here and each of those has ten tablets. So, we can assume there is like 90 tablets in there, right? The number of tablets that are in here, but if I get this medicine and go to my application and type, I've just bought sodium valproate, I bought one hundred tablets. The app will ask me, how many do you take or when you take this medication? I tell it okay, I take at 8 hours in the morning. How many tablets? Two tablets. And then from that the application will be able to calculate how long this medicine will last. And if my inventory notices that I only have maybe a week's supply remaining, it would be able to tell me, to say, Bright you only have a week's supply of medicine. But then again the reminder is not only with me. Emergency contact gets it to say, Bright's only got a week's supply help him get more medicine.

NEIL: 32:59

That's super important.

BIRGHT: 33:01

That's yes. So, that's another feature. And then we've got features like find a counsellor. I added this because many people want counselling services but they don't know where to start from, especially here in Africa, that's not a common thing, to go to a counsellor. You literally hear people say, that's is a white people thing. If you tell people, I went to a counsellor. Exactly. And people are even ashamed to even say, I'm going to a counsellor. So, I added that feature on the application so that if somebody wants to find a counsellor within their vicinity. So, here I am in Lusaka, and I don't where this start from, to find a counsellor, get Seizure Assistant and just click find a counsellor and it will list me all the counsellors who are in Lusaka, I can know which one to go to schedule and be able to schedule a meeting with them and get my counselling session done. And then we've got another feature which is called, Bust a Myth. Bust a Myth is a feature that was added, after I discovered you know what, there are too many myths that people have about epilepsy. Many people wouldn't help a person who is having a seizure and they are foaming at the mouth because they are thinking, if I touch that foam, I'm also going to have a seizure, I'd be like, my word, are we really, okay. You know and other people would just, would, there is a man who called me called me when I was on radio once and he says, I'm no longer having intercourse with my wife because somebody told me she's epileptic and epilepsy is a sexually transmitted disease.

DEBRA: 34:36

Oh, wow.

BRIGHT: 34:39

Trust me, on that one I had to pause the mic while on radio, to laugh a bit and then, you know and unmute it and then come back and start advising the man. So, Bust a Myth is just there to list the myth to say the myth is, for example, put a spoon in the mouth of somebody having a fit and then you'll be able to help them and then there will be a balloon right below, a purple balloon, which has a small writing which says, the truth is, when you click it the balloon pops and poof the truth comes out. And just bursting that myth. The other myth that is common in Zambia is that if a person is found having a seizure, somebody is going to say, take off their shoe and put it on the mouth, if they smell their foot the seizure, will go away. I'm like, okay.

DEBRA: 35:20

Wow.

Bright: 35:22

So, those are things that we try to you know, speak against in Bust a Myth and then Bust a Myth is not the last one. We have got the last one, features like, support group sessions or meet ups. Meet ups is where you find support group sessions where we basically just allow people to find other people who are living with this conditions and be able to have those support sessions with them and get the support that they need from fellow people who are living with this and then you can get hints on how to manage your condition. You have a chat platform where you can chat with others anonymously and so many other features. Basically it's a whole system.

NEIL: 36:08

As well as a medical device. It sounds absolutely amazing, Bright and Debra was right to say that I would be impressed. Unfortunately, we have overrun our time because I could keep on talking for ages. This has been fantastic. I need to thank our sponsors Amazon and MyClearText, for helping keeping us on air and keeping us captioned. And I really look forward to continuing the discussions on and off air and also on Twitter. So, thank you very much for joining us.

DEBRA: 36:43

Thank you, Bright.

BRIGHT: 36:44

Thank you so much for having me.