Empowering Girls To Code in Africa:: A Conversation with Siemens' Leaders Natalia Oropreza and Rita Nkuhlu

Just imagine stepping into a leadership role where you don't tick all the boxes. Quite daunting, right? Well, Natalia Oropreza did just that, stepping into her role as the Chief Cybersecurity and Diversity Officer at Siemens, and in this chat, she shares her journey and the importance of taking risks. Alongside Natalia, we have Rita Nkuhlu, the Executive Director for Sub-Saharan Africa at Siemens, who sheds light on the unique diversity within Siemens in South Africa, a place where 11 different languages are spoken and many cultures coexist to enrich the organization.

As we advance, Natalia and Rita guide us through the commendable initiatives they're spearheading to promote gender equity on a global scale, such as the Girls Can Code initiative. This initiative empowers young girls with quality education in coding and cybersecurity, and is a testament to the power of diversity. We also delve into the critical role mentoring plays in fostering diversity and inclusivity in organizations, and how it can yield substantial returns. Finally, we get a sneak peek into the world of cybersecurity, the job opportunities it presents, and why it is crucial to back organizations that are making a difference. Buckle up and join us in exploring the transformative power of diversity and inclusivity in the corporate world.

Chapters

• 0:00 Siemens' Diversity and Accessibility Initiatives
• 14:56 Girls Can Code for Gender Equity
• 23:20 Mentoring and Collaboration in Cybersecurity

Transcript

0:00

AXSCHAT Natalia Oropeza and Rita Nkuhlu

NEIL: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Axschat. I'm delighted that we are joined by two of our guests today from Siemens. So, we have got Natalia Oropeza, who is the Chief Cybersecurity and Chief Diversity Officer and, Rita Nkuhlu, who is the Executive Director, for Sub Sahara and Africa. So, I hope I have I got that right. It's great to have Siemens back on the show because it's been a little while. We are always keen to hear what such a large and multifaceted organisation is doing in this space. So, welcome Natalia, coming to you first. You're the Chief Diversity Officer, as well as Chief Cyber Security. So, that's a very broad and diverse portfolio. So, tell us a little bit about our favourite bit of the portfolio, which is the diversity part. And how did you come to be in this role and so on?

NATALIA: 0:57

There a very charming story, I guess behind my role of Diversity Officer. So, I joined Siemens and I started to taking over the responsibility of Cybersecurity, which I enjoy very much. I am in love with the technology and therefore with Cybersecurity as well. And it was during the first year at the end of the year that I was in the big Siemens business conference, once a year, Siemens has a conference with all the top leaders and I was there and at that time, Janina Kugel, who used to be our Chief HR Officer in Siemens, she was leaving. And in that, in that opportunity she give up one of her responsibilities to Maria Ferraro, and this was the responsibility of diversity. So, we were standing there and Janina was basically saying, I am leaving and one of my responsibilities is diversity and I will pass it to Maria Ferraro, who is now the CFO of Siemens Energy. And then I was standing there and watching and saying, wow, what an honour. What a nice responsibility. But Natalia, don't even dream about this. You were new in the company. You have to manage the Cybersecurity first. You don't, you know people, but not that many. You don't have a background into that and so on and so forth. In other words, I was going through the check list in my mind and saying, no, no, no, no, right? Surprise surprise, six months later, in the middle of the pandemic, Dr Roland Busch who is now our CEO and at that time was my boss, the CTO call me one day and told me, you know Natalia, Maria will have other responsibilities in the future. And I want to know your opinion, whether I can propose you as a candidate to take over the diversity, responsibility and he told me I think you have this talent, you are close to people, you are diverse yourself. You have experience and you can talk with people. And he gave me also a list of what I did have and, then of course, it took me like two minutes and I think I am exaggerating to say, absolutely, I will be honoured. And I am all for it. I don't know about the specifics but I am willing to learn and willing to take it over. And I think the reason this story is relevant is because I have seen, in the practice, that many women want to check every point in the check list before taking the risk --

NEIL: 4:17

Absolutely.

RITA: 4:20

-- Of maybe, going after a management position or something, and it was also my case. So, that is why I wanted to start this conversation with that very nice story.

NEIL: 4:32

Great. So fantastic and I think a lot of us know about imposter syndrome. Especially, in some of these leadership roles and especially in ones where it's an emerging topic, where you know, diversity accessibility, was you know, they have been around for a while. They haven't been high up in corporate consciousness. So, as the global leader for accessibility within ATOS. That's been a journey too. And, one where sometimes yes, you do have that sort of imposter syndrome. You are thinking more why am I here. Should I put my hand up? And the answer is no one is any better qualified than you. If you, you know, because no one has got all of the boxes ticked. So, great that you can, that you are now in the role. And, obviously Rita, it would be lovely to have an introduction from Rita and then maybe we can dive in a bit more to what you're doing. I know there is going to be questions from Debra and Antonio. The sound is okay. Great, so, yes, tell us about your role?

RITA: 5:41

So, my role is Executive Director of Siemen's sub Sahara and Africa. I've several hats on. But the one I would say I enjoy the most is the diversity portfolio that I have and why do I like it? It's because, you know, within the context of South Africa, we are known as the rainbow nation and Siemens really in particular, in South Africa represents that very, very well. So, we have yes, 11 different languages and many different cultures. And so, for me, it's very interesting and really quieten enriching to watch as we, as leaders you know, influence how our organisation looks and making sure that we have sure, cultural representation, which is extremely important but with that also comes then the representation of different thought, different cultures, different thoughts, different thoughts. You know a much more richer organisation and Siemen's is all the better for it. So, this role, I really find a lot of enrichment in and holding.

NEIL: 6:56

Excellent. Thank you. So, I'm hogging the mic slightly, I know Debra is getting queued up. We interviewed Maria before and Maria had a personal interest in accessibility and you know, we all do. This is Axschat. So, I think that you know, we know actually not I think, we know that Siemens has, you know got lots of initiative around disability inclusion and so on. What is, you know, some of the things that you're doing as part of your diversity programme that promote that inclusion of disability into the understanding of diversity. You're muted Natalia?

NATALIA: 7:41

I will take your questions and let me tell you, the strategy for DEI. So, I took it over as diversity and the first thing I did was to look around the world and look inside of Siemens and see what is it that the topic means. And then, me and my team we came to the conclusion that the strategy will be to enable a sense of belonging in every one of us employees at Siemen's. So, the strategy, the name of the strategy is belong and transform. And the reason on why we want to achieve and enable this sense of belonging is because we realise and this is actually shown by studies, that belonging is in our DNA. So, from years ago, we needed to belong to a tribe to survive otherwise we would have died. And we do everything to belong. I remember in my school days I start using red lipstick which, I still do because the other girls in the other class were using that and I wanted to belong to the team, to that group of girls. And once we have this feeling of belonging that help us to act and to perform with our whole selves, with our whole potential. Now, we also realise that in order for the sense of belonging to exist, we have to work in three topics. Number one is diversity. The society is diverse. And we have to reflect that society and that society includes Trans, lesbians, gays, Mexicans, Germans, Spanish, also vegans. So, we want to embrace and reflect that diversity. Number two, we need to be inclusive, which means we need to include the diversity of the different perspectives that that diversity is bringing to the table, otherwise, diversity is just about having a meeting, with different people and at the end, coming to the conclusion of the boss or the strong one in the meeting. Now, the third element is accessibility, you call it. I call it equity and it means to make sure that people, all people have access and have the chance to have access to opportunities and in that regard, education plays a big, a huge role and that's why the African girls can quote international initiatives is so important and so meaningful for all of us. So, this is in a nutshell what we do in Siemen's, in order to support the sense of belonging and the people.

NEIL: 11:00

Debra, I think you had a question?

DEBRA: 11:02

Well, first of all, I want to thank both Natalia and Rita for being on and also, we have also had other people on from Siemens. I know we had interviewed a gentleman that was a President of Siemens a few years ago, I'm totally balancing on his name and he came back and he was on one of my shows. So, we continued to see a lot of leadership from Siemens, on these topics and I just am very grateful number one, for that. Robert Neuhauser, was his name. It just magically appeared in my brain. No, it didn't, Antonio, no Neil.

NATALIA: 11:34

And Rob is my colleague, yes.

DEBRA: 11:36

Oh, we love Rob. We love, love, love the leadership we see from Rob, but I just love that first of all the story that you gave about Chief Cybersecurity and Chief Diversity Officer because I was just, really and I was actually very excited because I would think part of it, you Natalie and Rita, bring you in it also. But, I was fascinated because I would perceive, we here in the States, we have Chief Diversity Officers, but we do not give them any kind of budget. We don't give them any kind of really, true leadership role. Often it feels to us that they are just a checking box position, unfortunately. But I would think the Chief Cybersecurity Officer, we are going to love and be all around you because that's such an important topic. So, I love that you have them combined because both are important topics. And obviously Siemens sees that. So, I wanted to applaud you for being ridiculously competent and saying, I'll take that on too, like we do. Thank you for that. But, also I love that you're combining it with the two roles because with an opportunity to show who Siemens really is. And so, I would be very interested in you coming in on that. And then from Rita, you know from the Rainbow Nation comment. You know, I loved that comment that she made because, if we can get it right in Africa, we can get it right everywhere else. I mean we say that also about India. So, I thought it was just so interesting that you two brilliant women are working together and seeing all these other people to really make sure we are included in a more empowering way and so, I just wanted to applaud you all for that but also have you talk about that a little bit more. And I just want to tell the audience that Rita is not hearing Natalia as well. So, we are making sure she is getting the gist of what Natalia is saying but I just want to let the audience know, we are having a little bit of technical problems, but Rita at that is having no problems, she is right on top of it all. So, Natalia, let's give it to you and then we'll past it over to Rita.

NATALIA: 13:47

Yes, and let me give you a couple of comments on this combination of Cybersecurity and DEI and let me tell the background of that and the reasons of what first Roland Busch, now Judith Wiese. They had in mind two things, when they put the DEI with cybersecurity. The number one thing was to put this in one of the businesses and not necessarily in the traditional now PNO personal organisation structure organisation, so that the topic could be closer to the business. Second, you know in cybersecurity, we are all about metrics and KPIs and targets because that's the only way to protect our company efficiently. So, it's not about what you feel or well, it's about the number of attacks, successfully or not the number of compromised accounts successfully or not. The number of protected assets and so on and so forth. So, part of the idea and this is what we have been doing is to include data and the topic and to derive from this data, the decisions and the actions that we need to take, right. And so now, we have enable a framework for instance, for gender equity where every organisation in the world is able to look at the dash boards and know how many promotions, how many hirings, how many whatever. I mean, you cannot imagine the level of detail they have. So, we have to tell everyone. Second important thing to mention, I think is, together with the management board but more important together with the each CEO in every country, we have set targets to together with them on how do they want to approach. It is not us centrally setting targets, but them saying my market look like this. My ambitions look like this. This is a target I want to pursue and we talk about the good practices, road blocks and so on and so forth. So, I am very happy that we have managed to establish now a framework, also in a topic that was more soft, if you will, you know? But, now we have data, we have numbers, we have targets and now we are sure that we are making progress. Slow because this is going to happen over time and not overnight. But, we are in the right direction. So, that in a nutshell what I can tell you. I could tell you more but what do you use all the time. And probably before Rita start about the girls can quote initiative that we have, you mention a lot of people have work. And yes, a lot of people, but most especially a lot of women. So, Rita and myself and we have also Hannah from the IT, who is providing the IT equipment to the countries in Africa, of course, most important Sabine Dall'Omo CEO in South Africa has been pushing for that. We have an excellent Project Manager, Chelina, dealing with the project, which is an amazing project. It's a very complex project. I mean you have to ask her what she have to do in order to export and move the hardware that was needed. So, somehow, it has been a great team of women. So, Rita, would you agree with that? So, Rita, would you agree with that?

RITA: 17:57

Absolutely, Natalia. So yes, you know, and when we think about diversity, it's not just about one single country and I think this is where Natalia is quite right is this is particular project, you know we have taken in five countries, you know to prove that you know, cross border diversity is also quite important and with the African girls can code, that exactly is set to prove that point, you know? We have taken girls on from Kenya, from Rwanda, all the way up in the north from Ethiopia and then all the way down south in South Africa, I mean how much more geographically diverse can you get. And this project is really proving that it does not matter where one is really located. All one needs is a chance to prove you know, ones' ability, one's curiosity, most importantly the curiosity. And this is where I think the nexus is so impressive that Natalia has in her portfolio is that we are taking on, you know the most important aspects of what it means to be in a connected world in the way we are and linking that to talent and linking that to women talent. So, yes, again, back to rainbow nation and we can talk about rainbows, all over the world because let's face it, our society is so integrated, not just digitally but also in the type of people that we are, in the values that we have shared with one another and what we have adopted you know, as a result much more open minded and yes, when one can measure it, as we are able to do at Siemens, then we can also show that there is progress, yes. I would say Natalia, probably we can go a little bit faster, and you know moving at the pace that we are, I think we are doing it much quicker than we actually had thought we were able to, why because that's very important because each country is looking at themselves, looking at the situation that they are in and really committing, you know to the idea of what it means to be truly diverse in thought, in you know, one's life style and from whichever community one comes from. It prove a point that globally there is talent, one Africa should not be discounted, because we also have a lot of talent but what it takes is the type of leadership that you know Sabine Dall'Omo represents, Natalia and you know, the project teams that make up this kind of initiative, one and then driving it to its conclusion.

ANTONIO: 21:09

So, if I look you know, following on Natalia's story, how she became Chief Diversity Officer and I know a little bit more of her story at Siemen's as well and you read your story working in Siemens, you know, when you are girls you had expectations of progress, of development. How do you see this project, reaching these girls and also be able to fulfil their expectations of development, of being someone, of progressing in life?

NATALIA: 21:48

Well, let me tell you what we are doing with the African Girls Code Programme Initiative is two components are very important. The number one is the location, it's about making them more employable for the future and for that very concrete, we are teaching them how to code and also cybersecurity. You can tell Antonio, I was there saying, I mean this doesn't fly, if we don't educate them in cybersecurity. So, we want both and we put a lot of attention for them to have good quality of education in both topics. Second, also very important, is we are combining the programme with another programme of Siemens called SieMent, and this is a mentoring programme where we assign mentors to the girls. And the idea is to accompany them so that at the end of the day and that is my goal, my personal one, I make it very personal is we want to see the girls in two years with a job somewhere. If it is Siemens headquarters, if it is Siemens South Africa. If it is Allianz somewhere because they are working with this as well, if this is one of the partners of Charter of Trust, Antonio, you know them very well, important if they get a job. Right? So, we are doing everything, mentoring for us is very, very important. Probably let me tell you, I've had many mentors in my life, starting with my mother, who very clearly told me Natalia, there is no Prince Charming, you have to care for yourself, yourself. And, that kind of shaped me in the way I am. Following, by one boss of mine that when I was pregnant with my second child, which was a surprise for me and I don't know why it was a surprise, but it was a surprise and I told him, probably you want to give me job to someone else because I'm now pregnant and he told me, well I'll give your job to someone else if this is what you want but I don't see any relationship between your capacity and you growing a family and you will have my plenty support. And this is the quality of mentors that we now want to provide to the girls in the programme so that's my answer to you, Antonio.

NEIL: 24:37

Thank you. And I am really interested in these programmes because it's something that I'm also engaged in, in north in -- in Africa. So, I would love to jump the Sahara and connect the two together. We're doing a lot of peer mentoring and coding and teaching digital skills to people, including cyber security skills and we are trying to also, at the same time, teach the young people that come through our doors about accessibility because, just like cyber security is something that's foundational, that you need to bake in how to design and deliver technology so is accessibility. It's really expensive doing it at the end and actually, I think that quite often, I've looked to cybersecurity as both a pathway to follow because accessibility is analogous just to cybersecurity and because in terms of the pathway to maturity, it used to be something that came in at the end, that ruined all of the project, bumped up the costs and everybody hated and gradually the maturity shifted left and people understood that they needed to bake it in and I'm hoping that accessibility is following that pathway. But also, I am really interested because there is sometimes a tension between the needs to enable people access and the needs to remain secure. So, having both of the topics under the same umbrella seems to me to be a really interesting way to be able to resolve some of those conflicts. And the final thing that I wanted to mention about the benefits of these programmes is that when I talk to our CEO for Africa, a chap called Alpha Barry, he said, what you have got to realise is that there is a five X return on this because often the people are getting these jobs are supporting not only themselves, but four other members of their families. So, the economics benefits of these programmes are tremendous and then, if you think about it from a disability point of view you double it because if you give someone with disability skills to support themselves, care is usually provided by the family, so what you're then doing is freeing up two people to be in employment. So, you have got a 10X return. So, I think what you're doing is fantastic and I, you know just putting it out there that I think this is in there, I would love to collaborate on. So, Rita, when these girls are finished, what are the sort of, you know, what are they, what kind of roles are they going into. I know you said you got some coming into Siemens, some of them might go to partners of trust partners, including us. What's, have any exited so far. What is the success rate? I think it's a great thing?

DEBRA: 27:57

Yes, so we are in the beginning stages, right of this and what Natalia says that it's a two year programme. The girls have received their laptops. They have had --

RITA: 28:09

Neil, that's, we are able to have at the moment, and we'll get much more access in the future, it's important cybersecurity is going to be the field that you know, that you'll have so many you know job opportunities in and you know hacking will became a vocation because it is important that we are able to penetrate test, our own systems, systems of our customers, making sure that our suppliers are not, you know the cause of the leak. So, in my view, you know hacking professionally and penetration testing also known as penetration testing is one of the major, major job opportunities that is already, you know available that also will you know increase incrementally with AI being out there and all the development that is happening.

JUDGE: 29:16

Thank you. So, Debra Antonio, do you have comments, questions?

DEBRA: 29:26

Well, I just, I really appreciate the efforts that are being made because one thing that we know about many nations, but certainly from the African nations that the women are placed such a critical point in the family. So, making sure that we are you know supporting girls right from the very beginning is just going to help families, in so many other empowering ways, which you talked a little bit about as well Neil. But I just know my expectations of these really big technology organisations, like Siemens, ATOS, is to be really be giving back. So, programmes like this I love and I want to hear more about and I want us all to support it and I want us to use Siemens because we all have to get behind the brands that are making the difference in the world, period. And so, all I can say is I'm grateful. I love Natalia how you talked about how, you didn't mention you but you and Rita and other women were stepping up to really, really make a difference here. It just, I think nothing is more important as Rita said. Cybersecurity jobs are not going away. Cybersecurity is here. And so, these are well paid jobs. So, to know we are taking care of our girls in the rainbow nation, I just think it's a really, really something you all should be applauded for and I look forward to hearing a lot more about it. So, thank you.

NATALIA: 30:56

Thank you for that, but I think the ones that deserve the applause are the girls themselves and once you put one of these faces in front of your face.

DEBRA: 31:05

Right.

NATALIA: 31:07

And that you know, in my school days, I was fan of Marie Curie, but I actually think I decide to study what I study because of her, she was my role model at that time and I can tell you after being in Africa with them and looking at the faces and looking at hearing of the hopes.

DEBRA: 31:29

Right.

NATALIA: 31:30

Now, they have become my role models.

DEBRA: 31:33

Right.

NATALIA: 31:34

And this is, this is this has no cost. I mean this has no, nothing equals it.

DEBRA: 31:49

Right. And this is how we change society. Sorry, Neil, this is how we change society. Go ahead, Neil. I apologise.

NEIL: 31:55

Yes, no problem. I mean, so one the things that I think is really important that I really benefited from, aside from being a menti, for years and having great mentors, is actually reverse mentoring. So, learning from the people that I mentor. So, and I particularly love doing this with people from different countries and different parts of the world and different cultures because that gives me a richness of experience and perspective that I wouldn't otherwise have. So, the work that we have done recently in Africa and India, has been really important for me to have a wider, more deep view of how we might do things and how we might do things differently and technology, how we apply technology in the cultural context. So, I think what you're doing will be rich for the girls but also as you say, rich for yourselves as well. So, I wish you every success in this. I think we are pretty much at the end of our half hour. I need to thank MyClearText for keeping us captioned and accessible and also, Amazon for supporting the show and keeping us on air. So, thank you so much, Natalia.

NATALIA: 33:13

Nice to you see you Rita. And nice to see Antonio, bye.

RITA: 33:18

Thank you, bye.

ANTONIO: 33:21

Thank you, Natalia and Rita.