Why Are Banks Struggling with Accessibility?

Are traditional banking systems failing those who most need them? In this thought-provoking episode, David Agar and Penny Roberts share their mission to revolutionize financial accessibility through their innovative app, Bankability. Reflecting on their personal journey as parents of a child with disabilities, they delve into the crucial need for hyper-personalization in banking solutions. With over 15 million adults in the UK facing accessibility barriers, the couple’s insights highlight how financial institutions often neglect unique user needs in favor of generic solutions.

As modern banking becomes increasingly digital, it's essential to address the disconnect that leaves many feeling excluded. David explains how their proposed system employs AI and user-centered design to adapt to each individual's preferences, creating a supportive environment that respects user autonomy. They convey the urgency behind rethinking current practices, challenging listeners to join a broader conversation about inclusion in finance.

This episode is a call to action for investment and collaboration as they look to engage with stakeholders who share their vision. Explore how technology can empower individuals in managing their finances securely, especially for those who may not have traditional support systems. Tune in and find out how together, we can pave the way for a more accessible and inclusive banking landscape for all. Don’t miss out on joining their waiting list, and be part of this transformative journey!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Access Chat
• 6:59 The Importance of Accessibility in Banking
• 26:45 Meet David Agar: Background and Insights
• 35:48 Understanding Hyper
• 59:15 The Role of AI in Financial Accessibility
• 1:10:00 Final Thoughts and Calls for Collaboration

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to AXSChat. I'm delighted that we're joined today by David Agar and Penny Roberts from Bankability. Banking seems to be a bit of a hot topic on AXSChat at the moment, but then access to finance should always be a hot topic because it's the fundamentals of being able to live an independent life. So David and Penny, welcome. May I start with you, David, because you're showing up first on my screen, not because of any gender bias here. and ask you a little bit about your background and how you came to be working and working towards bankability. Yeah, sure. Well, thank you very much for inviting us. It's a great privilege to be here. And yeah, so my background, I'm a I'm a tech sector entrepreneur. I've been in the tech sector for gosh, a long time. And begins with a three and then somewhere middle to high. So I've been in mobile comms. I've been in Internet of Things. that's a good Last week, did a talk with a friend of mine who a at He I that's a good I think that's good thing. I think think good thing. I think I think I that's a a a I think think that's I good I I thing. I think that's that's a good thing. a good I I a thing. I that's good thing. the reason why bankability came about was because my wife and I, who will speak in a moment, Penny, my wife and I have a son called Charlie. He's 20 years old. He was diagnosed with dyslexia at the age of six and with autism at the age of 16. He had a really, really difficult time going through the educational years. So, um, they were, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, But how does that relate to specifically to bankability, and that's because of my FinTech connection. So somebody said to me just a few months before COVID, what is the retail challenge within banking to do with accessibility? And having recently, at the time, having recently launched an app for a business, that was involved in cross border payments. I realized that actually nobody had discussed that accessibility within the development team. I've lived with somebody for many years with accessibility challenges. And even I didn't think about mentioning it because there's this default thing about just assuming that everybody else is like you. And so... you didn't say you were going to do channel that was going be a YouTube but I think you adults with disabilities, and a high proportion of those have accessibility challenges. So then I looked into the banks. OK, what are the banks doing about accessibility? And if you listen to the PR, They're doing this, they're doing that, they're doing the other. All sounds fantastic. gosh, I wish I had accessibility challenges that I could really benefit from all this work that's being done. But actually, just peel away the surface of that. there are some moves that banks are making which are helping some customers. But the whole premise of accessibility within banking starts off incorrectly. in the sense that it's one solution for the majority. It's not understanding that actually hyper-personalization is required because everybody's accessibility needs are uniquely different. things. So, that sounds something that's really close to my heart David. Before we go diving into the detail, because I know I'm going have questions about this, can we also introduce Penny and her background and then we'll come back to the hyper personalisation piece because this is really important, it's particularly important for cognitive accessibility, but I'd to understand that… the dynamics of the two of you, so sorry to cut across you, we'll definitely go back to the hyper personalisation piece. Neil. Well, as you guys already heard that, yeah, David and I are husband and wife. I'm also a serial entrepreneur and I have this annoying habit of coming up with ideas almost every week of why isn't that easier than that? I think it's lateral thinking. I think it's common sense. But if I say something out loud, then I've got to do it. I've got to follow it through, I'm afraid. I drive my friends mad, but it's just how I am. And I'm also super proud of Charlie. But the world needs to be easier for him to be independent in because at the moment it's a mess and it's cruel and so Like David we've worked all over the world. We've had businesses in the States. We've had some great amazing experiences and But this will be my legacy Excellent, thank you. So, coming back to the idea of one size doesn't fit all, you know, this is really important, I was, and Debra, also, we were part of the W3C's cognitive accessibility task force way back when, when they were thinking about user needs, frankly, the different requirements and needs of different cognitive accessibility groups and different disability groups in general means that You can't have one product that's going to work for everyone. So how are you going about solving that in the work that you're doing? Can I just paint my little picture which I often do here, David, which just set the scene? Imagine a sketch of a caretaker outside some school doors are locked and there's 10 steps going down from the school front doors and they're all covered in snow, it's snowed overnight. And the students are locked out at the bottom of these steps waiting. And there's a student who's a wheelchair user to the left of these steps waiting at the bottom of a ramp. Ramp's also covered in snow. But this smart young man calls the caretaker, please sir. If you can just sweep the snow off the ramp, we can all get in. And how we're different is the individual banks might get around to sweeping the snow off their step, but then it's only right for their customers. They're not designing it generically. And so we are this ramp, if you like, to get into anyone's finances. Yeah. Penny, Penny, can I come in real quick since I did? could we start with a question for you and David? Because of course, we're recording this at a time when you do not want to use acronyms like DEIA and things like that. one thing that I have found is that banks, especially looking at it from US lens, since I'm in the United States, Banks have made efforts. They've made some efforts. Financial institutions have made efforts. But I will tell you, and I won't tell you the bank, but a very large bank in the United States, which is a global bank, invited me a couple of years to come in and talk to them about accessibility. And I was sort of surprised. And they said, well, we have done all these things. We've got this program over here. We got this. You can do this. You can do this. They said, the problem is our wealthy customers don't wanna use those side steps. And so they're really getting mad at us that the people with the money, they're finding that the banking and the financial are not accessible to them. So we're like really sort of freaking out, because we did do these little band aids over here, not their words, but for some reason it's not working. first of all, would just, because I hear what you're saying about Charlie, I've got Sarah that can't really be included. But the reality is, they're not doing it. And so I was just curious. And so I guess that's one reason why Bankability came around because we heard that they're doing it, but they themselves have said, well, okay, it's not working for our wealthy customers. We got to rethink this. So I was just curious. And also I use the hashtag human inclusion now, because I don't understand why technology can't be available to us for every aspect of our lives. I'm now a senior citizen. And I don't hear as well as I used to. So I don't understand why the customers are not really being valued and included in the banking and financial industry. And I was just thinking maybe y'all know. David. Well, I think the reality is that at every potential touch point, every potential step in the journey from having an idea within a bank through to delivery to successful delivery to a customer on anything really, particularly for accessibility. The culture doesn't support, doesn't... doesn't default to thinking about inclusion. Because if it did, then the first thing that would happen at the ideation stage is that it would, the teams involved would talk to and engage with the target groups that they would be trying to assist when it comes to accessibility. That, generally speaking, does not happen. And so, you you kind of get into a bit of a default mode where teams work together. And then sometimes, if you're lucky, towards the end of it or the middle of it, there might be some involvement with an accessibility consultancy group. Then it's a case of... a big opportunity to that. to try and address something. There's also, banks typically move for two reasons. One is legislation and regulation, because they have to. And number two is bottom line profit, which can also become in the form of reducing costs. think about this. So. when you put all these factors together, some of the people within these massive organizations who genuinely are trying to produce a better outcome for customers, they keep hitting so many brick walls that eventually they get worn down. And this is because there is no or there's very little evidence of buying from the board. So the board have these objectives which are to maximise return on investment for shareholders and that doesn't typically go hand in hand with accessibility. I think also I'd like to add to that, and I've spoken to quite a few global banks, more so over here in the UK for now, but I think their hands are tied with their legacy systems, which are quite often broken. So they can't be nimble like we're being nimble. We've got a wish list and this wish list is being shared with people with the frustrations to build it with the people that need these things to work differently. And we're just... fresh pair of eyes on the situation that should have been tackled decades ago. But I've had banks say to me, we have other priorities right now, which I think is so ableist. What, you've got other priorities rather than people? How does that work? So it's time to just do the right thing and show the banks how it should be done. children. For a great part of my life, bank means for me, I go to a branch, I talk with people. So I feel in those days banks were more accessible because people could just go regarding of the age. You could go in and somebody would serve you and would talk with you. As a consequence of digitalization, sometimes also this impression that banks don't see the customers anymore. So they are at home. you feel that the fact that customers no longer see their customers negatively impact the fact that They are not considering accessibility as they should. Definitely. Now, in using the UK as an example, 62 % of all bank branches since 2015 have been closed. And on average, banks believe that the cost reduction to overheads and expenses in closing a branch will save them make them for better power, for better statistics, so 21,000 units of energy would be too much. So that's why I've been on this mission. I think that's question I've always had. I've been on this mission a long time. of course, it means that, you know, what used to be the case where there would be a very nice lady behind the counter, the counter. regular customers when they came in, understand that this particular customer might have an impaired hearing and so would make a human bridge to support that need. That does not happen now. It doesn't happen within a banking app or existing banking apps. And so that's why our bankability starting point is completely the opposite of the banks. And you know what? Our driver is actually the optimized outcome for the user. It's actually not the ROI exclusively, because we believe that when you are delivering an improved and optimized outcome for customers, the money side of things will just follow. Okay, if you've got happy users, will generate what you need to generate to carry on, to continue developing and to deliver a return on investment for your investors. Okay, so this is profit with purpose. I'd like to show you guys that just at end of last year, David and I were invited to go to London to a big round table event. And at this event were banks, insurance companies, people with learning disabilities, all sorts of people that were relevant to ask their opinion. And it was very interesting because we were asked to use one of these voting tools on an app where you can say, why hasn't it been made accessible before? So the course came up on the screen, cash. ignorance, budget, those kind of things, the obvious really. But by the end of about an hour and a half, the people in that room were describing exactly what we're building. I think you can imagine how that made me feel. Oh, it was incredible. I'm oh my word, at last it's dawning. But I've spoken to you a year ago and what is it? So the time is definitely now. And they actually said what users need is hyper personalization. So that's a complex word. And so I think I know what it is, but maybe not all of our audience do. So maybe you can explain a bit more about what the Bankability app does and what you mean by hyper personalisation so that the audience can really understand how you're solving some of the problems that people are experiencing with mainstream banking. I'll do the non-techie version if you've done the techie version. Do you want to do the non-taking? Okay. Being a non-techie, I would describe our app as a little bit like our users being able to download an app and choose all their personal preferences, just like having a prescription for your spectacles, your glasses. So it's not just off the shelf and they're green or they're blue. It's actually right for you and you only. And then once they've chosen those preferences, whatever it might be, there's probably going to be million different choices they can have off this menu. then it's fixed. And every time they want to use our app again, no matter which bank accounts they're going to go and have a little look at or to listen to, we remember what their preferences are. They don't have to start from scratch. I think to pick up on that. It's great that when we're not live yet, by the way, we just built our prototype and we are looking for funding to continue and build the minimum viable product so we can be to launch that and get moving. know, part of the challenge is even if you get a snapshot in time of where one particular user is able to be on boarded. And we know that they like this particular font. They like their point size to be this particular size. They like these colors and whatever the mix of different things are to make it work for that particular individual user. But people's condition can change over time. It may be aware, the person may be aware of such a change, it may be a temporary change, it may be a permanent change. It could be a degenerative lifelong series of changes. And so particularly if you think about on the dementia side of things, so early onset, quite often the individual may not be aware. So one of the clever things that Bankability does is that we have this, we've designed this wonderful AI backend system, ethical AI. And the way that this works in very simplistic terms, I, friendly enough, I'm also a novoteki, is that it's monitoring and understanding the behavior and the touch points that at each touch point of you using the app and referencing that against all the other data points that we have in order to identify, okay, well, actually, your previous usage was slightly different to how you're using it now. So that then makes us think that actually, all right. Well, there's been a bit of a change in this area. And so that we're able to proactively and prescriptively offer improvements for the user without them having to know to ask or to be technical themselves. And all of this is done in a natural language way. that, know, particularly relevant for people who Thank know, have cognitive disabilities and the elderly, the older adults, I should say, whereby, you know, there's all this concern about getting scammed or losing all their money or fraud and security issues. So it's important that we're able to reassure users appropriately that that we are providing a secure service. It's actually additional layers of security on top of what your bank already offers, but not in a cumbersome way. game for some reason. David. can just add to that actually, just quickly, sorry Deborah, on top of lots of layers, it's like a wafer, the bankability story, but another layer will be if a user thinks that they want to pay for gym membership and they're going to pay £3,000, our sister will go, hmm, that's quite a lot for gym membership. Let's just have a look at that a bit more closely. And for somebody who might not really understand where the decimal point is going. it might become quite pictorial. So they can see that you're talking about buying like a small car or a TV compared to paying for a lunch or a gym membership. So it becomes really assistive without making people feel that they're losing their independence. Penny and David, I just want to say that for the audience, I'm really blessed to be one of your advisors. And so I know you've got a really big group, but it's really important people that are doing that. So I want to give us a quick story. Lloyds of London, which I don't know them very well. I have a good impression of them. I know that they had used Be My Eyes to do a couple of things to support the banking that needed to, the people that needed the extra support. But what they were surprised by was how valuable this was to the customers. So then they wound up opening it up to all the customers because as you were saying, David, there is a lot of corruption going on right now. And so one thing I would like you to address is first of all, Can any bank and financial institution, I know that right now you're starting in the UK and there's regulatory and legislative things that have to be considered, but can anybody do it? Meaning any financial institution, but at the same time, I also would like you to talk, can you talk about a few more scenarios? Because I have a little bit more knowledge just because I've been tracking what you are doing and involved, but. I think it would be helpful if you talked about some scenarios where people use the apps. Because I understand where you're going because I've been in the conversation, just to help the audience a little bit more. from the perspective of the banking, the financial, and then the bank, and then the perspective of, you know, the individuals and the families. My husband, the dementia one spoke to me. I walked my beautiful husband all the way through dementia till he passed. And yeah, I had to really change what we did and protect our family because sometimes you don't know that, whoops, there's a problem until there's already a problem. So thank you. who might be wheelchair user. and they, they, they, the care and support that they receive are actually from external parties. or they're in some form of supported living accommodation. It is not uncommon for those people to share their banking credentials with the third party just in order for them to be able to complete a purchase. And obviously, immediately that is a potential security risk. So, you know, that is one example. But to your earlier question about can our technology, when it's completed, will it be possible to use that by any bank anywhere in the world? Well, the short answer to that is yes. So bankability itself is our first in-house B2B2C use case. And the reason why we're sort of building our own in-house use case is because, number one, it doesn't exist elsewhere. Number two, banks don't ask me why, but typically they're sort of cynical until they see something that's actually working. And number three, what it means is that from a backend point of view, in order for the way that we're building this, when we're ready to launch, we'll actually have a B2B solution. that's available to any bank anywhere else. essentially without getting too technical about it, know, APIs, which can be incorporated and integrated within an existing bank platform, regardless of which market they're in. And I think it's also important that, as I said before, we're going to be very generic. Anyone can use bankability no matter who they bank with. So it's not just for Lloyds or just for HSBC. It has to be completely accessible. Something that we read and were discussing in the past and with different people in the area of security is, accessibility, not sure if we can do it because, know, if we want to do cybersecurity, you know, making accessible might be a problem, API systems. So sometimes we see this collision between the two. So David, know, and Penny, what can you tell us about your journey that somehow can help us to push away this myth? Okay, maybe I'll take that. the way that from a customer perspective, the way that this works through bankability is that you've got bankability, think of bankability as an enabler. so bankability is enabling the user to be able to access their existing bank account. So all the security measures that to manage the already funding flights. whichever bank that you bank with. you know, believe me, they'll be state of the art. It is one of the top areas that they do focus on. They're all in place. the additional security standards that we will be working to and incorporating will be in addition to that. So a lovely DNA, I'm not willing to access it. bank account. We're not a bank. We never will be a bank ever, ever, And in the UK, we have one of the regulators is called the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority. And if you wish to trade or have a brand name with those four letters involved, B-A-N-K, then Basically, you either have to be a bank or you need their permission once you've explained to them exactly what it is that you're doing. And so we had that call with the FCA very, very early on, explained that we were an accessibility enabler and they were absolutely fine with that. And so we overcame that particular potential hurdle. Okay, so and all of this is possible because of things like PSD2 and open banking, which has changed the way that people are able to access their financial data, because everybody's individual bank account data was kept by each individual bank. And so even I'm of those bank accounts and and and the opening up of that regulation which came from Europe and I think we just lifted and shifted Then opened up the possibility of you creating Bankability app which you can find if people are interested at bankability.app on the web and That then opens up the doors for you to create something that people can customize to their own use and can use with multiple different banks. So just before we close, we do need to close, are there anything that you, any final things that you want to sort of get out there to our audience in terms of, you are there people that you wish to be connecting with who can help you on your mission? Yeah, we definitely welcome contacts and introductions to any parties, whether they be individuals or organisations that understand the mission that we're on and would like to help us to get there. And so, you know, right now, one of the most important things that we're looking for is investment. On a show. Face time. is aligned with the mission. Yeah, I'd also like to add that we would like to encourage anybody listening and all your friends to go to our website and to join our waiting list where those numbers will speak volumes. And we do actually have a whole list of potential investors waiting until we have our MVP, our minimal viable product. So we're just nearly there. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but we're almost there, folks. But we need to make this happen as soon as possible because people are getting frustrated. It's a human right to have access to their finances. I'm sorry. think right now it's more important than ever. I applaud you, David and Penny. I know the path you've been on, because I've also been on it. And it's really, really tough changing the world. But I think you're needed more than ever before. I hope that people will take the time to check it out. And it seems to me the right funders are funders that have people that are impacted in their family, so people that really care about making a difference. Yeah. Yeah. right. And I believe that once we get our first milestone investor, lots of others will follow because it's actually the right thing to do. Thank you. Super. So, thank you so much for sharing your story, the information about the work you're doing. Look forward to continuing this discussion on social media. We're on Blue Sky, folks. Access Chat is on Blue Sky every Tuesday. And also, thank you to Amazon and MyClearText for keeping us on air and keeping us captured. Thank you very much. Thanks guys. Thank you.