The Father-Son Journey Through Accessibility and Acting

Gareth Ford-Williams shares how his son Zak inability to access age-appropriate BBC games sparked a career revolutionizing digital accessibility, culminating in the development of BBC iPlayer with comprehensive accessibility features.

• Gareth's journey began when six-year-old Zak couldn't access BBC games designed for older children
• Personal connections and family experiences often drive innovation in accessibility
• While working as BBC brand manager, Gareth questioned why they would build relationships with audiences only to abandon them
• The BBC iPlayer project launched in 2007 with screen reader accessibility, closed captions, and audio description
• Twenty years later, Zak appears on the very platform his father helped make accessible

• Zak shares his experience as an actor with a disability despite repeatedly being told it would never happen
• Period dramas historically feature conventionally perfect bodies despite historical reality being "far wonkier"
• Zak's drama teacher revealed period dances had simple movements precisely because disability was common
• The powerful concept of "incidental portrayal" – casting disabled actors in roles where disability isn't central to the plot
• Putting a disabled person on stage changes the audience relationship in ways that add artistic value and subtext

Keep following AXSChat for more conversations about accessibility, representation, and breaking barriers in media and technology.

Chapters

• 0:01 Introduction to Gareth and Zach
• 1:05 BBC Accessibility Origins
• 4:05 Zach's Acting Journey
• 7:26 Breaking Through Barriers in Entertainment
• 12:15 Authentic Representation in Period Drama
• 18:05 Disability in Acting and Casting
• 23:10 Balancing Authenticity and Performance
• 27:33 Incidental vs. Character-Defining Disability

Transcript

Neil Milliken: 0:01

Hello and welcome to AXSChat. I'm delighted that we're joined today by our first ever guest, gareth Ford-Williams, and his responsible adult, zach Ford-Williams. So, gareth, we were trying to get you on to celebrate our 10th anniversary of AXSChat. We missed it by a few months, but we do have the added bonus of you bringing Zach with you. And why is Zach important? Well, he's important for many reasons, but also Zach is one of the reasons why you're motivators for your work. But also, I've heard many apocryphal tales about Zach when you're talking about some of the things that you were doing in accessibility, so maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the sort of backstory and and so on yeah, I blame it all on you.

Gareth: 0:49

Um, I think, as simple as that, I think we can end. We're all friends in back in eons time, five, twenty, one years ago or twenty years ago. Uh, right at the start of sort of my journey working in accessibility at the bbc, the conversations started with children's games. You were six years old, you were not able. I was already working at the bbc as a brand manager.

Gareth: 1:18

Conversations had already kind of kick-started around this, because the bbc, obviously, you know very, very long history with accessibility, going back to the 1920s, and and no one had a plan. There were bits and pieces of work, there were pockets of work going on, but nothing was consolidated. And one of the things that was that was obvious at the time was, you know, and I I could see this as you were playing games that were designed for the under sixes, because there was this wonderful guy called ian hamilton who was a designer who was working well, I hadn't met yet, didn't know existed, um, and there was a pocket of work going on in cbbs, but you wanted to move to the six to twelve games in cbbc, yeah, and you couldn't access them. And so I was like, well, I, you know if put it out time. You know it's ridiculous. I think I used the line actually to to, uh, a guy who became my my line manager eventually, tony aggie, I think he runs digital at new york public library now, and uh, and I said, you know it's brilliant. You know, as a brand manager, I think about the relationships we have with our audiences and it's brilliant. You've built up a relationship with zach and now you've dropped him at age six. You know that's, that's, it's not, it's brilliant. You've built up a relationship with Zach and now you've dropped him at age six. You know that's, it's not good. Once you've sort of brought people in to the brand of the BBC, you see them through their lives. You don't sort of pick and choose and drop and pick up as you go along around.

Gareth: 2:36

Access and there was so much of that. And then we started working. I was given free reign on a prototype that was going on in the corner. It was like we first need to work out what, what we even mean by accessibility. I think the exec said you know, we want it to be at least as accessible as television, which you know everything, which kind of muddied the waters even more.

Gareth: 2:57

But at least it gave us an understanding of, of a quality that they wanted to reach and, um, and the weird thing is that project became bbc iplayer, which launched in 2007, and we've done all the screen reader accessibility stuff on it we've done. You know, closed caption, subtitles was there we did sound interpretation was on there, audio description was on there. There was loads of stuff that we were doing and, um, you know, 20 years later he's on it and that. That's that's now the weird bit for me as a parent. You know you're spending your time building a thing for you to use and now you're actually on the thing instead. So, yeah, it's kind of all gone weirdly, sort of full circle, yeah it's yours now.

Zak: 3:38

It must be.

Gareth: 3:39

It's a strange thing it's not like well, yeah, it kind of is, I switch it on and there you are, but that's kind of the story. I mean, there's lots of bits and pieces in between and obviously you know, as that, growing up and I know other people are, you know who are disabled, and you kind of bring personal experience, my own neurodivergence and all sorts of bits and pieces into this and, uh, you know, we all do this.

Zak: 4:03

we all our personal stories, our families, our friends, our experiences are the thing that kind of shape our perspectives yeah, I agree, um, one of the things that, if you don't mind my saying, I love about your work and I think helps us all if we have a sort of personal connection to what we're doing really kind of gives us the drive to move forward. But you've always you've always been like that. You've done lots of different stuff, lots of different careers, but you sort of gravitate towards. Wherever there's a problem that needs fixing and someone needs helping, you will. You will do anything to sort of fix it I don't like things that people ignore.

Gareth: 4:45

I think also what zach's trying to say is that I don't like things that people ignore. I think also what Zach's trying to say is that I don't know what I want to be when I grow up.

Zak: 4:55

I'm probably one of the only people who's always sort of known. I've wanted to be an actor since I was six and I'm incredibly stubborn and I've never changed my mind, and I think both you and Bob's reaction was's reaction was yes, of course, when I told you you're going to be an astronaut next week. Yeah, I never changed my mind um, he hasn't.

Gareth: 5:16

I don't know how he does that, because I have never worked out what my mind is. So yeah, we're very different in some special interests. That's how, back to neurodivergence again.

Neil Milliken: 5:26

So just for some of our audience that maybe don't watch the telly or iPlayer Zach, you're an actor and you've been in a number of quite well-known series such as Midsommar, murders, bridgerton and the Hard Acres, and you're also doing stage acting. This is great, because this is a topic that I know we've covered on Access Shot a few times about representation in the media and so on, so maybe you could tell us about some of the work that you've been doing and so on. And then I know Deborah and Antonio have also got questions and I'll keep my mouth shut for the rest of the time.

Zak: 6:07

Fabulous. I mean it's really interesting sort of growing up. It's something. The lack of representation is something I didn't sort of think about, because when I first decided to become an actor I was so young that I wasn't really aware that there was a societal label of being disabled that I was, that there was a societal label of being disabled that I was, that I was different than that, even though those people I was seeing up there didn't have my physicality. I wasn't aware that that made us different on societal terms yet, because I was so young I was just like I want to be an actor. And it was only when I started to get older and experienced maybe a few more barriers and maybe a seeing the physical evidence in front of me of there being very few people with, um, physicality and with that sort of societal label of disabled which is different from the condition itself. And I had people overtly and covertly sort of in my life never you, you two, but going. Maybe this isn't for you or people like you sort of shouldn't really do this.

Gareth: 7:07

Yeah, I remember what he said to the careers advisor. That's another story.

Debra: 7:15

Can you give us the PG version? I mean, I didn't know it wasn't swear. No, we can hear it. We can hear it in our head Crushing it was, I'll say it.

Zak: 7:23

We can hear it in our head, crushing it was, I'll say it. I just because I was trying to be as polite as possible, because I'd never changed my mind and I was like, no, I'm going to do this, and I was constantly being sort of bombarded with other ideas. We've tried this. Yes, I mean, there was a good suggestion. I was really trying to be polite, you know. But again and again and again, and eventually I snapped and I said why should I listen to you? I bet you didn't want to be a careers advisor when you grow up. Yeah, which I got in trouble for.

Gareth: 7:54

He doubled down a bit later on and I think he was just saying I'm only trying to learn from his mistakes.

Zak: 8:00

Yeah, which maybe was a bit mean. No disrespect to careers advisors or anything. I think it was the.

Gareth: 8:08

I think it was the persistent, even though I had said it was the assumption from their point of view because of who you are, yeah, and the barriers you face that it will never happen. Yeah, and that was that was the way it was phrased. It's like, let's face it, it's never going to happen. And the thing is with you. There was never a plan b. We gave up years, right, we tried. It's a terrible attempt as parents, but what if it has never been a plan b? No, and in some ways, why should there be? You know, if, if that is where your passion is, then follow it and do whatever it takes and whatever the length of journey it takes, you don't stop, you know and isn't that what we say to everybody else?

Debra: 8:49

gareth, I mean anybody else, but we'll say no to zach because of some vague what. What does that have to do with anything? So I hope that you sent your career counselor, um, some of your playbills and stuff. I hope had you seen me in bridgerton as a lord, for example unfortunately, my lack of contact details we don't look back, but uh, yeah, um, I do do have that sometimes.

Zak: 9:19

Sometimes it surprises me, I think, when you get that knowledge I mean there was a stubbornness but also when you're told something for a very young age, no matter how stubborn you are, it does infiltrate your life and your perception of yourself, and this is why sort of representation is important or whatever, because no matter what barriers you put up, those meanings start to to be absorbed and I had, growing up, started to believe them and was like, well, I'm going to try anyway and I'm going to spend my entire life never getting a job, but I'm going to do it anyway, out of a because it's one to what I want to do and b because I'm stubborn and I don't want to prove them right.

Zak: 9:56

So it was actually, in a strange way, a big surprise when I got into drama school and started getting jobs and started doing things, because I think that their message towards me which is why it's such a big thing to combat and the message that I got from lack of representation on screen was this space is not for you, and I think I subconsciously believed that, which is why it was such a big surprise yeah, but you never, it never put you off oh no never.

Gareth: 10:22

I mean, he once announced I think you were about 12 or 13 and he announced to us um, it might have been just to me, actually, I don't think you would have said this to your mother but he announced to me that you're going to do stage acting, but it was going. You're never going to make any money, but so just be prepared that I'm going to have to pay for everything you know, and that was your plan. Well, he had a plan which is is fine, we just carry on. It's all right, you just pick up the bill and we'll be okay.

Gareth: 10:52

Well done, it wasn't asking, it was just don't worry, this is the plan, this is okay. And I remember thinking, yeah, I didn't sign up to that.

Debra: 11:02

And now he's going to support you.

Gareth: 11:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Debra: 11:06

Zach, I know that I, like many, many, many, millions and millions of others, I'm a huge fan of Bridgerton and I know you were in the third season and I know that Antonio has a question, so I'm only going to make this comment real quick. But one thing that I loved about that particular season was how they were really focusing on the woman that was considered a wallflower. You know, nobody wanted her, nobody wanted her. She's too this, she's too that, she's too old, she's too big. I love that you played on that particular one, because I've watched all of them, queen. I mean, I'm a ridiculous fan of Bridgerton, but one reason why I am is because they are bringing everybody together in a way that we've never, ever seen before, and so I was just wondering. I know once again, I need to turn the mic over to Antonio for his comment, but I was just wondering if you wanted to. That must have make you feel proud on top of everything else, because they've done such a good job.

Zak: 12:05

I mean it does. I remember being sort of quite emotional. I'm very happy with what they did and that they they sort of went in that direction and particularly with period drama, against the history. People are often represented particularly physically with much more conventional bodies, even though historically they would be far wonkier, which is always one of the most absurd things about period dramas. So it was a big statement because of the sort of historic health care and hygiene and war and everything.

Gareth: 12:35

The disability was far more common it would be.

Zak: 12:38

It would be far more authentic. Yeah, so to do that, um made it more interesting, I think. I think having different people with different bodies and different backgrounds is always a more interesting choice.

Gareth: 12:48

You were telling me about period dances yes, dances, yeah.

Zak: 12:51

And this is a really nice story about drama school. Actually it shows how the fact that period dramas never have anyone like me had really gotten into my head In that we did period dance at drama school. It was very classical theater training, darling. Part of that was doing period dance and there was a lot of physical work and a lot of work on posture. And I remember the first day I got really upset because I felt like I just couldn't do this. This wasn't in my and I got quite upset to the movement, teacherie snow, who's wonderful and became a, a great friend and still is, and I said I don't know if you know, this stuff is is for me or made for me, and she looked at me and she went all of these are actual historical dances. Think about health care, think about you know, come back from war. Think about how much wonkier people's bodies would be. People just in history, in history just made do this. Actually, you being here and doing this makes this environment more authentic and I'd never considered that.

Gareth: 13:58

She was telling you as well about the way you know you're basically lining up, you're walking up to each other, having a little bow tottering around this way. But the thing is they're really simple moves because there would have been far more disability and impairment within the group, so that actually the dances are really quite inclusive and they're a set thing. Everyone knew where they were. There's no free formal space around this, and so those dances are that, for a particular reason, is to be more inclusive.

Zak: 14:26

Yeah, I agree.

Debra: 14:29

That's so cool. I know Antonio has a question. Antonio, you want to come in?

Antonio: 14:34

I want to reflect a little bit on the story of our guests here on Access Chat. And we end up realizing that many people working on industry, many people who are passionate about accessibility, have a story, a family story. They didn't start by studying accessibility or going directly into that. They have a story that motivated them to work, to develop and trying to find solutions. Why do you feel you know, gareth, you met so many people working in this field. You know you also know personally many of our colleagues and experts. Why?

Gareth: 15:10

do you feel this is the case? I think it sort of taps into something that's quite fundamental in so many people. We just want to fix things. There's so many of us see things and you just go I mean, we've done a project. Well, I've done a project quite recently and he's been mentoring me is about the best way I can describe it. He's a worm tongue but he feeds into stuff because it's a space that I don't know and I often spend an enormous amount of time talking to people that know spaces.

Gareth: 15:37

But I see a gap, I see a problem and you know this is. This is the thing with disability. You know, disability doesn't happen until we design things that don't work for people. That is the point. When disability happens, you know you can have it as an identity, but not everyone who's disabled identifies as disabled. But that's cool Either way. It's a cultural thing and it's quite a modern cultural thing. It's kind of mid-20th century. You go back into the era disability didn't exist as an idea. People just had characteristics of having an arm missing or whatever. That was just then, but it wasn't an identity as such.

Gareth: 16:14

But I think it's one of those things where you kind of you see a gap. You see something and think someone's going to do something about this, and then nobody does and it's like, well, if you're not going to do it, I'm going to have a go, because at least that will get the conversation going. And and you find other people that are looking at the same gaps. Like you know, when I met, you know, the, the wonderful ian hamilton, you know, and the pair of us then get together and after a year or so working with a few other people that were working in games and whatever we start writing, we finished off the first games accessibility guidelines from a publisher which then went on to become, you know, the foundation for ian's work and and tara's and everyone's you know, for games accessibility guidelinescom, you know. But it was one of those things. We just saw the gap and and it's like, well, why? Why not fill it? You know we've we've been doing some stuff recently about casting and portrayal yeah, because it just it just wasn't there.

Zak: 17:07

And then you, I think, because we kind of live such comfortable lives in you know the country where we are, and it seems like everything broadly is accounted for, we forget that there are gaps.

Gareth: 17:18

And when we approach, when we see a gap, we think that must be, that must be already accounted for, that must be someone's got this not yeah, we, we realized, so you know that one was an interesting one, because there's these wonderful things like tap tv access project, which has been going on for quite a while now, and creative diversity network and all these people. You start looking these and I I'd spotted this problem in about 2019, where everything that everyone was discussing was from a very hr point of view and everyone was thinking about access to spaces and employment and, you know, getting people through interviews and into sets and all the rest of it, which is amazing. There's all these access coordinators that started out and I've just forgotten her name. I spoke a couple of days ago to the first ever access coordinator and her name's gone right out of my head and it's going to come back sarah, something or other, but she was the first ever access coordinator for for on set and she now runs. She now actually manages loads of access coordinators. It's like an agent for them and um and and it's one. They all focused on that, but no one actually focused on the creativity bit of it.

Gareth: 18:29

It's like, where is the? Where is the guidance? Not like guidelines. I don't think there could be anything that draconian in art. That should never be but where is the guidance? For you know, what is the best approach to dealing with this. You know when we're casting authentically, or or when we're doing it incidentally, or or how we're telling stories about disabled people, or how we are enabling a disabled person to tell a story that's nothing to do with disability. Where is that thing that gives people at least a foundational understanding of the approach?

Zak: 19:02

And tools and suggestions to enable people to be creative with it. You know, yeah, the only things that existed were lists of things of people telling people and suggestions to enable people to be creative with it.

Gareth: 19:11

You know, yeah, the only things that existed were lists of things, of people telling people what not to do. And when I was talking to someone quite recently and they said, yeah, they came across a list of disability tropes and they went down the list and they said, by the time they got to the end of it, there isn't a single role you can cast a disabled actor in. They're all being removed. It's like there's nothing left. It's like, so if we followed this guidelines, we're not going to cast anyone well and some.

Debra: 19:38

Something I always wondered and I don't know, zach or gareth, if y'all can enlighten me here, but acting is portraying a character, and so one thing I also was confused about was lived experiences are going to add so much value to that acting experience, certainly, and so having lived experience with something it seems like and you were saying that before, gareth, you know it adds so much authenticity to things because you're not just trying to guess what it's like. But I also thought it got very confusing for me, just as an audience member, because we were saying well, you can't act that way because that's not authentic. For example, you cannot play a gay role if you're not gay. How dare you play even a person with a disability if you don't have disabilities? But it's acting and you're playing different roles, and so I always thought that was weird and didn't understand it.

Debra: 20:35

But then, of course, authenticity in an actor is so important. I want you to act, zach, I want you to tell me a story which, by the way, you did in Bridgerton and I don't want to even realize that you're acting. I'm falling to that story and Penelope's what I mean. I so got into it and that's one thing I loved about it is that it took me out of my ADHD brain. Stop, stop. But that part I'm always confused about because you're acting, but it is lived experiences. But oh, be careful of your identities.

Zak: 21:13

Yeah, I was wondering at some point when society would put our identities all back together so that we could be human beings, so solve the problem for me, zach, my personal view is is the trouble is is that there's a lot of people with a lot of differing opinions who all state their opinion on the matter like it is fact um, and they, they conflict each other and the trouble is no discussion happens because you do this, no, you do this, and of course that's confusing.

Zak: 21:45

But my, my view is it's like a balancing act. There has to be a bit of kind of both worlds, I think. I think physical traits are, are maybe slightly more important, but also you try and find who can bring and bring something from their life and experience to the role. But it doesn't have to be sort of exact, like if you know in a role, say, if someone is disabled but the, the disability is slightly different from what it is on screen, but they do, they still have that experience of otherness. Do they still have that? You know, you can be a bit broad, I think some actors get it.

Gareth: 22:24

Yeah, don't I mean. When you go back to daniel day leewis in my life, yeah, I mean I think you know it wouldn't happen again today. Well, the actual director has said he would now make different choices. Yeah, but the portrayal of something.

Zak: 22:38

It's strange it's like because often as a disabled actor you know a lot of instances of pardon the word, but creeping up, as they call it, you know, give me an odd feeling in my stomach, particularly when they feel inauthentic. But what's so interesting about Daniel Day-Lewis' performance? I have cerebral palsy. I look at his performance and that and he works so hard on it and was so specific and specificity is like so crucial in acting. It's one of the main things is specificity. He moves exactly like someone with cerebral palsy, to an uncanny degree I agree so it was.

Zak: 23:14

That was a. It was a really interesting thing because it was like, well, we shouldn't do that today. I don't feel disrespected because you got it right, but I would see that as an anomaly. I don't think most people go to that length.

Gareth: 23:28

It's just easier to find someone with lived experience sometimes than to have to go to that there was a thing that you said to me when you were you were a drama student and and um, I do like quoting zach a lot, and and you said to me that putting a disabled person on stage is a post-modernist act in itself and the idea being is that changes the relationship with the audience. Great, having Daniel there, and I think it was. Someone said that there's this cure of the curtain call. Yes, oh, what's her face?

Gareth: 24:05

Dr Jessie Parrott said that it's that whole point is the audience know that's fine, he's just walking away, it's all right. As soon as it's ended, it's all over everyone, it's not okay, it's not real. But when it suddenly becomes real, it changes the dynamic with the audience. There's something artistically valuable in there and that changes, and I think it's to do with audience perception. And I think it's to do with audience perception and I think it's to do with the visibility of disability rather than the authenticity of a condition. So when we think about, you know, authenticity, authenticity of casting, it's very much an hr kind of thing. We're going where you know we've got someone with adhd playing someone with adhd.

Gareth: 24:44

It's not really.

Zak: 24:45

I don't think it's necessary, unless there's specific moments in the story and you're thinking something about their life could bring something specific. Most of it's you know it's about not being a cosmetic change or something there.

Gareth: 24:59

for but, as you said, it's as soon as the person is on stage and everyone has already made an assumption yes, they've seen the person and they don't or heard them, and the signifiers and the characteristics are already there and they know it's real it suddenly changes everything. It's an artistic thing to do. There's more in there. I think you said to me as well. It was like the whole point of it is it adds subtext yes, and that's what acting is all about. May I come in for a sec there? I think you said to me as well. He was like the whole point of it is it adds subtext yes, and, and that's what acting's all about, may I come in for a sec.

Neil Milliken: 25:32

So we we've had another guest on uh. That is a repeated guest and that's a chap called kurt jaeger and a number of films, and but one of the things that he's trying to do is create a vehicle where they're casting disabled actors in all kinds of roles and they're using the leverage of finance to do that.

Neil Milliken: 25:57

But one of the things that he said and I think that this is really important was actually looking at the roles and going well, there's nothing in this role that's described that says that the actor can't have a disability, right, and so then we move away from, you know, having disabled actors only playing disabled roles, because that's the main part of the role and actually just disability being part of who they are and incidental to the plot, and I think that that's the really lord remington is the perfect yeah exactly.

Zak: 26:31

Yeah, I mean I don't. I mean I agree, I'd love to be fair, not to bring it back to myself, but I agree with lord remington, an incidental betrayal being the most in some important thing. But I've got, I've got a friend who I believe, and I believe, auditioned for that role. He's not disabled and didn't get it, sorry, mate. And there's nothing in the script that stated that that character had to be, but the power in that just being an usual everyday thing, even in the Hard Acres where it is a bit more of an explicit thing. But I love the Hard Acres in that, when I watched it back particularly, harry just exists, he just is, and that's incredibly powerful because also that's real to people's lives, no matter if it's disability or anything. Sometimes there are specific events that happen to us that do relate to that, but it's more authentic that people are just existing and trying to cope with this strange thing that is being alive.

Gareth: 27:27

Yeah, and there's a lot to be said in the parallel with colorblind casting. If you come across that where you're just casting right, you know, regardless of ethnicity, you know you're just bringing in an actor that can act, who can bring something into the role and something of themselves to the role, and again you're dealing with people's preconceived ideas and preconceptions and attitudes. Changes that dynamic and I think disability and ethnicity in that way on screen are incredibly closely aligned conceptually.

Zak: 27:54

I would agree from a conceptual standpoint in that overcoming that mental barrier. I think the mental barrier is a similar one in the eyes of people creating these programs.

Neil Milliken: 28:05

Yeah, this has been a fantastic conversation. I know we could go on for hours, as we have done before, so it remains for me to thank Amazon and MyClearText for keeping us on air and keeping us captioned and accessible. Gareth, it's always a pleasure. Zach, it's great to get to meet you and I look forward to us continuing this conversation online. Thank you so much.

Gareth: 28:31

Absolutely, thank you.