Unlocking ADHD in Singapore

What does it mean to be diagnosed with ADHD at age 50? For Moonlake Lee, it wasn't just a personal revelation – it became the catalyst for creating Singapore's first charity dedicated to supporting people with ADHD.

When Moonlake's daughter received an ADHD diagnosis at 15, it sparked questions about her own lifelong patterns of hyperactivity, impulsivity, and overwhelm. Despite her success as an angel investor and tech executive, Moonlake often found herself taking on too much – half marathons, choir performances, international travel, and family obligations all competing for her attention. The diagnosis brought unexpected gifts: not just tools for managing her busy mind, but deeper self-understanding and improved relationships.

This transformative experience revealed a critical gap in Singapore's support systems. With 80% of children with special educational needs attending mainstream schools but minimal resources available, many were falling through the cracks. Most strikingly, Singapore had no clinical guidelines for adult ADHD, perpetuating the myth that it's "just a childhood condition."

Through Unlocking ADHD, Moonlake is changing this landscape. Her organization provides psychoeducation, practical strategies, and community support while advocating for systemic change. For the first time, Singapore is developing clinical guidelines for adult ADHD, with Moonlake serving on the task force. Her upcoming book "Differently Wired Minds" will showcase 60 Singaporeans with ADHD who are making meaningful contributions to society.

"Those who are neurodivergent are diamonds, but they're covered by shame and trauma," Moonlake explains. Her mission? Uncovering these diamonds by helping people identify their strengths, embrace their neurodiversity, and access the support they need to thrive.

Ready to explore how neurodivergent minds can transform our world? Listen now and discover how understanding and embracing difference creates pathways to innovation, connection, and fulfilment.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Moonlake Leith
• 2:34 Late Diagnosis Journey at 50
• 4:32 Starting Unlocking ADHD Charity
• 9:13 Societal Perceptions and Challenges
• 13:32 ADHD and Executive Function Struggles
• 19:38 Burnout and Relationship Impact
• 23:00 Advocacy and Celebrating ADHD Strengths
• 26:38 Support Systems and Women with ADHD

Transcript

Neil Milliken: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Access Chat. No Debra today, but I have Antonio with me and we're delighted to welcome Moonlake Lee, who is the director and founder of Unlocking ADHD in Singapore. So introduced to Moonlake through the serendipity of connections and conferences. Thank you, Florence, for introducing us. We had a great chat before, and I thought that it would be great to bring Moonlake on talk about the work that she's doing because, as listeners to Access Chat that are regulars here will know, we're really interested in hearing about people doing work outside of Europe and outside of the Western world, and so we're really happy to have you join us. So welcome, Moonlake. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you're doing with Unlocking ADHD.

Moonlake Lee: 0:54

Thank you for having me today. I'm Moonlake Moonlake Lee and I'm a late diagnosed ADHD. I was diagnosed when I was 50, a year after my daughter was diagnosed when she was 15 years old. Four years ago, I launched Unlocking ADHD, which is a young charity in Singapore and a social service agency, and the mission of Unlocking ADHD is to empower ADHDs and their families to live life to the fullest. So we focus more on youth and adults with ADHD.

Neil Milliken: 1:25

So I mean I'm counting us as youth right, because we're going to live for a long time yet but also late diagnosed ADHD. So with you there, it's not uncommon that people of our age follow a path where their children get diagnosed and then that then leads to sort of light bulbs going off in their heads and going, oh, that sounds familiar. So was that the case for you that your daughter went through a diagnosis and then you're like that sounds like me, that sounds like me. Oh, I do that.

Moonlake Lee: 2:00

I think for me, as any parent would do, you know, when your loved one has a certain condition, you want to find out more about it. You read, you read a lot, and then you want to understand it more and through the course of the research I found out that there was a genetic link. And then I'm thinking OK, but then I'm 50. You know, like I sort of made it through so far, is there a real need to do something at this stage? So I sort of put it off. But I realized that, you know, I'm the kind of person that tends to be the more hyperactive, impulsive type of presentation, so I tend to bite off more than I can chew. So overcommitment, so overwhelmed it's like the second name I have right. It's just that my tolerance level is a lot higher, but I still get overwhelmed. And at that particular period, when I got diagnosed there was just too much going on, I had just started working with a tech startup that I invested in, I was an angel investor and I joined a tech startup. While doing that, and I was traveling twice a month, I was preparing for two half marathons, I was singing in the choir, my kid was doing the GCSE equivalent in Singapore and my mom-in-law in Hong Kong was really ill and so we were flying there during the Hong Kong protest period, when we're trying to avoid the airport at the regular hours. So that's a lot of stuff going on.

Moonlake Lee: 3:22

At that time I felt that I needed to capture every single second or minute to be productive, because there's just too much. I was organizing a retail industry conference and it's a new industry for me at a month and a half. So when I felt everything crashing down, a good friend of mine shared that he had just been diagnosed with ADHD and had just started taking medication and it just sort of helped him be more productive. I think I was grasping at straws at that time, you know, to unlock any kind of extra productivity and things to get things done. So that's why I went for a diagnosis, just desperation more than anything else.

Moonlake Lee: 3:57

But the interesting thing is I don't think after I got diagnosed and got some medication it made me more productive. I think I already was clocking it pretty high. But what helped actually was that self-understanding, self-compassion, and then my husband and I had a better relationship, because I think at one point we were saying now is it a character flaw issue, you know, and then self-understanding context helped him be a little bit more patient too. So I had a very unexpected kind of outcome, not what I was chasing, but something that's still pretty good anyway.

Antonio Santos: 4:29

So long story. That was what I was going to ask when you got diagnosed how that impacted the others around you. So you already mentioned about that. I wanted to know when you launched it, how did the society receive it, the announcement, and what people were able to come back to you and say, okay, this is a good idea. Can you tell us the?

Antonio Santos: 4:54

story behind it.

Moonlake Lee: 4:55

Well, first of all, when I told people around me that I had been diagnosed with ADHD, there was a lot of disbelief. First of all, I'm not the typical age right? People all think of small boys usually, and I ain't a small boy. Secondly, I had people saying you don't look ADHD, and I really don't know what that's supposed to mean. I don't know whether you get it over your part of the world, but I really don't know what kind of look we're supposed to have. And then the third thing was you're the most organized person I know, so you can't have ADHD. And it actually felt quite invalidating.

Moonlake Lee: 5:31

But I think sometimes those closest to you would know whether there are certain areas of your life that maybe the world doesn't see, but they do. And I think that helped me sort of stay grounded and not get swayed by everyone you know everyone telling me no, no, you don't have it. You know you don't look like, you're not typical. Yeah, so that was tough. And in society again in Singapore we don't talk about that too much, at least the last couple of years until we started. It's getting better now, but I still think there'll be some ways to go.

Neil Milliken: 6:00

So low levels of awareness, both amongst your own social group but in wider society, and was that one of the drivers for setting up Unlocking ADHD in the first place?

Moonlake Lee: 6:18

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in Singapore we're familiar with something called special education need, which I think is similar. You guys scent, right, you call it scent and it's, you know, adhd, autism spectrum disorder and dyslexia being the three main conditions. And in singapore, um 80 percent of the children with sen go to mainstream schools, not special schools, but the schools only have one or two counselors or senkos to take care of this. So it's really not enough.

Moonlake Lee: 6:49

So a lot of people are falling through the crack, you know, and I could see that my own journey with my daughter, you know, showed a lot of gaps in support, in understanding the, the impact that it could have throughout one's life, not just during the schooling years. And initially, when I started, I had a choice of, you know, starting off as a commercial enterprise because there are commercial elements to this too, as we all know or social enterprise, or charity no-transcript because I knew that if I did that, I'll be spending a lot of time begging for money I mean fundraising, you know, doing compliance and governance and reporting, which would be very distracting from the whole reason why I wanted to start in the first place, which is to have that impact, because I literally paid through my teeth, you know, for the specialists and medication, the therapy, the coaching. And then I was thinking how many people know where to go and know what to do? And even if they had funds, there's not enough resources available. So that's the whole impetus of trying to break things down into bite size and scale it so that more people have access to information that could help them move to the next level.

Moonlake Lee: 8:02

So in the end I chose charity, because there was really nothing here that could adequately meet the needs. And I also realized that, you know, whenever, like for those who are 20-year-old, divergent, a lot of us are needing some kind of North Star, some kind of purpose, and actually when someone volunteers, they are doing so for a cause that's bigger than themselves and it not only gives meaning but it also is somewhat therapeutic, and I felt that the charity vehicle would enable me to do that versus another vehicle. And finally, because of all the society and governmental changes that were needed, I felt that I would have a better chance of being heard and supported from a longer-term perspective if I was a charity and integrated into the national-term perspective, if I was a charity and integrated into the national planning landscape, than if I was outside.

Antonio Santos: 8:51

So you would say that, as a charity organization, can have a good level of reputation within Singapore. Am I? Would I? Because I'm asking that? Because in some areas of the world it lost a little bit of reputation and so people are not really willing to invest on it. So it's interesting to know the type of reputation that the charity can achieve in Singapore a tech startup.

Moonlake Lee: 9:16

actually, our wiring is very neurodivergent, right, but similar. Like startups. We have funding issues, right, and then people not knowing about us. So those are still struggles. Right now we're not government funded Okay, I started with my own savings and then a few grants here and there. But thankfully, as we get a little bit more established, things are changing and we're going to be announcing funding support soon from a multinational, and that's enabling us to go from being very ground up and community driven to the next level, which is we're going to be launching ADHD informed, accessible counseling services.

Antonio Santos: 9:55

So yeah, you also mentioned that you have been investing in companies. So how you relate your experience of being diagnosed and then looking to entrepreneurs that create companies and feel well, maybe this CEO here managing this startup needs some help. How do you relate these two worlds?

Moonlake Lee: 10:25

My husband belongs to a global organization of entrepreneurs. It's called entrepreneurs organization or EO. They're like all over the world, maybe 18 000 members, and I've been involved as a spouse for the last 15 plus years. And the joke, you know like we sometimes read the popular media, at least in in ADHD media. That's just about 30 percent or so right of entrepreneurs have ADHD. My own experience moving around the entrepreneurial world I think it's probably near 50% and maybe that's why it's so fun. But yes, I think many of them are finding that there is neurodivergence within and that makes them so successful. But it's also where a lot of the stress and the challenges can lie.

Neil Milliken: 11:01

Fighting with the mute button now. So I think that we've recognized the challenges of starting something like this and getting that ground up support and I think that whether it's a charitable model or a community interest company, you know gaining the sort of momentum for doing this is significantly difficult. So credit to you for taking it on. I was recognizing some of the motivations behind diagnosis for myself. So, like you, late diagnosed, already pretty successful in the career, doing lots of stuff considered to be organized because we've developed coping strategies and so on, outside of the public life, that was impacting on my personal life.

Neil Milliken: 12:03

It's like "why are you forgetting stuff? Why do you leave the door open all the time? Why are there 16 glasses of half-drunk drinks around the house? You know you're doing this just to annoy. You know it's like, well, wanting to understand and process. Some of that was more of a driver than I need to go. And you know, get medication to be successful. Medication helps, right, I'm not denying that, but it's not helping me be necessarily loads more productive, because I was already quite a productive person.

Neil Milliken: 12:37

It's helped me to be a bit more focused and, as you say, the awareness is helpful in terms of being able to process through why certain things happen. Doesn't mean that my wife always buys my explanations, but I had. I had an epiphany when she asked me a question why are you able to open a door and not shut it? Because one of the things that causes discussions to be had in the American household is the fact that quite often, doors and windows are left open. And I actually had to think about this and why it is and you know I do.

Neil Milliken: 13:21

I spend a lot of time with going on in my brain and I'm not paying that much attention to my surroundings. So it occurred to me that what was actually happening was like I'm in my thoughts and I get to a door and I can't go through. So therefore I have to break my thoughts and open the door right. So I open the door, carry on going back into my own mental world, do my thing. Doors still open. So I don't break my train of thought by stopping to close the door, because I'm absorbed in the my mental worlds. That's, I think, the explanation as to why there are so many open doors in my house. It doesn't make any less frustrating, you know, but at least I can understand why some of this stuff is happening, yep. So I think, from that point of view, being able to sort of understand why some of these things happen is helpful. It doesn't help her, but it helps me.

Moonlake Lee: 14:25

It brings it to my awareness. And the other word I learned recently in relating to my ADHD was about the issue of object permanence. You know, out of sight, out of mind, right?

Neil Milliken: 14:36

Yes, completely.

Moonlake Lee: 14:39

And it's actually really tough because you know I'm sure you guys have the same problem I get a couple of hundred messages a day, whether it's WhatsApp, emails, linkedin, whatever right and even though something's important, and say, okay, I got only one hand, now I can't respond and I will respond later. And then more messages comes and it pushes it down. So it's out of sight, out of mind, not because it's any less important, I just didn't see it anymore. Outside of mind, not because it's any less important, I just didn't see it anymore. And that's why sometimes we could be messy in that sense, because we want to put everything in front where we can see it and touch it. What, or relationships, right. Just because you don't see someone, then you don't think about them, but it doesn't mean they mean less to you, it's just that you don't see them.

Neil Milliken: 15:19

Yeah, or even if they are in the back of your mind. You've got loads of other things going on and it's like I'll get around to that in a bit and then it doesn't. That in a bit is three months, yeah.

Moonlake Lee: 15:32

So the difficulty I think here was to explain to people. It wasn't because you didn't care about them, it wasn't that at all right, because it defies most neurotypical people's thinking.

Neil Milliken: 15:47

Yes, wasn't that at all right, because it defies most neurotypical people's thinking yes, yeah, so, so yeah, I think I was also trying to give a good example of that sort of domino distraction effect that that happens, and I think that when people say everybody's a little adhd now, I think that the impact of technology does amplify the distraction that people feel, because technology and a lot of the sort of the media that we consume and the messaging apps that we consume, is designed to distract you because they're all trying to pull you into their ecosystem and into have your eyeballs on that thing that everyone's like, looking for your attention.

Neil Milliken: 16:27

And I think you know there's. A great example for me was I was trying to explain to someone an example of what it's like, and it's like; my cousin's father had died and he's not my first cousin, he's my third, cousin or whatever, but I know his father, grew up with them and I wished to send him my condolences. But I didn't have his email address and the only place that I knew I could message him was LinkedIn and it took me, I think, six attempts in about four hours to actually send the message, even though I strongly wanted to do this thing, because I was constantly going in and then there'd be 16 different notifications and I'd go off and I'd look at that distraction, yeah, and that would send me over to something else and I'd come back and it was like get up, get a drink, leave it somewhere, go back, sit down, go.

Neil Milliken: 17:18

I haven't done the thing that I wanted to do and it took me loads of attempts. Eventually I got it done. But it was a real struggle to do that in a linear manner, because our brains don't work in a linear way and that's sometimes a brilliant thing because we're able to connect ideas in different ways and see patterns and all the rest of it.

Neil Milliken: 17:41

But in terms of timely task completion, it's terrible it's a struggle, it can be a struggle yeah, and I think that definitely technology has made that more difficult because of all of the different messaging and fragmentation and stuff like that. I think that you know, the pulls for my attention now are far greater than they were when I was growing up, when we didn't have all of these digital systems. It's not that I dislike digital. I mean, I find great value in lots of these things but it does... It changes the way that you interact and do things for sure.

Moonlake Lee: 18:24

Yeah, absolutely so. I think we just need to be mindful and know where to put the boundaries, or at least try so. I try to turn notifications off, but that also has its own other issues, right?

Neil Milliken: 18:36

Yes, yeah, I mean, it's like" are you ignoring me? Well, not specifically, but yes, I've turned off all of my notifications. Yeah, so there are definitely hygiene factors that you can implement in terms of your digital footprint and how you do stuff. Are those the kind of things that you're teaching other people to do through the work that you're doing with Unlocking ADHD, teaching people strategies for coping with overload?

Moonlake Lee: 19:03

Yeah, in fact, in July, we did a webinar on ADHD burnout, and when I was researching for that, I found that Singapore is one of the third highest burnout capitals in the world. So we all know about burnout already, just not specifically ADHD burnout. So things like that. When we survey our community to ask them what are the things that are hot button topics for them? Things like career strategies you know, when we survey our community to ask them what are the things that are hot button topics for them? Things like, you know, career strategies, right, staying in a job or finding a job, managing finances so these are things.

Moonlake Lee: 19:33

Relationships I did a webinar with Melissa Olof in the US, the author of the ADHD effect on marriage. You know I did that webinar about three years ago. Marriage you know, I did that webinar about three years ago. Until now, that's the highest viewed webinar on our YouTube channel, because ADHD impacts a lot on relationships as well.

Moonlake Lee: 19:51

And the other thing that I am very passionate about is the parent and child relationship, particularly parent and young adult relationship, because there's not enough resources in this area. Relationship because there's not enough resources in this area, and I just did a webinar, too, in March. And there's a big online summit called the Executive Function Online Summit with Seth Perler, who was an executive function coach in the US, so I was a bonus speaker there and I was coming up with this model about trying to manage the relationship first, before you can even start doing strategies, and I think that applies whether it's workplace relationships or whether it's parental right. People just want to feel that connection before the correction starts, and that's something I'm pretty passionate about, about trying to get back to the basics.

Neil Milliken: 20:39

Yeah, yeah, I think the on off to go have a look at the book got distracted, went and googled for it already. So, and I for sure I know that you know the behaviors impact relationships. You know people get very defensive too about certain things. So I think that, yeah, for sure. Uh, you know, when you have that mix of neurodivergent and neurotypical, it can it, it. We need our neurotypicals. Um, you know the neurotypical support network is important, but also, you know, the, the, the translation across the divide is also something that needs to happen as well, because there's a different way of viewing the world.

Moonlake Lee: 21:37

The thing that's different about Singapore I guess to maybe where you both are from is that for ADHD, it's not considered a disability in our country, right, it's categorized under neurodevelopmental condition and it's also categorized under special education need. So then you're looking more in the education sector and possibly in the pediatric type, you know, childhood sector. But in other countries it's also classified for accommodation purposes as a disability and also in other countries as a mental health condition. Right, it's a DSM-5, right, but it isn't here. So a lot of the things that may be quite normal or taken for granted in other jurisdictions, we don't have that kind of same position here. So it really falls into no man's land. So part of what I do, beyond trying to come up with ways to get more psychoeducation and strategies and support accessible to people, is actually a fair element of advocacy as well, to let governments, ministries, companies understand about number one impact of unmanaged, undiagnosed ADHD, but also the strengths when there's support and how people can thrive.

Moonlake Lee: 22:55

So October is ADHD Awareness Month, and how we're going to be celebrating here is we're going to have ADHD Awareness, a program where this year Singapore turned 60 years old. So they call it SG60. So I'm jumping on this to launch a book okay, by Unlocking ADHD this October. It's going to be called Differently Wired Minds and we are featuring 60 Singapore ADHDers who are making a difference, because I want to showcase the diversity, the richness, the strengths and also the challenges, but how people are finding ways to address it and be resilient and to thrive, because not everyone can access medical help because of a lack of specialist doctors here or even just lack of financial resources. But if they can get their hands on the book or even our social media where we share these individual stories, then people may be able to relate with someone else that has a similar kind of journey and see what kind of strategies they used.

Moonlake Lee: 23:55

I'm also hoping that this would give people hope, especially parents, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, somebody. That was such a struggle right that you couldn't figure out how they're going to survive in life later on. It's like changing the world. We know that many people with ADHD have a strong streak of social justice. So many of the folks here have started social enterprises, charities or doing something special to change the world. So this is the kind of spirit that I want to capture. We're using it the special edition for a fundraiser, because we're trying to launch for the first time, adhd-informed counseling and next year ADHD-informed coaching. So something very specific and community accessible.

Antonio Santos: 24:37

So what type of aim do you wish to achieve? Do you want to change the way our education system works? To achieve, do you want to change the way our education system works? Do you aim to improve the acceptance of ADHD within business? What is your ultimate aim?

Moonlake Lee: 24:55

I think it's number one is to get people who have the condition to understand it and not just accept it but to embrace it. Because right now, we're still having people who may know they have it, those who are formerly diagnosed, but who still feel very much shame or anger about having it. So it's hard for them to move forward because they feel so unsupported in their home environment or the work environment or in society. But there's also that inner sort of like lack of acceptance that is a barrier to moving forward. I want people to be able to understand themselves better and others to understand them, so that they really can access their strength.

Moonlake Lee: 25:34

I mean, one of the reasons why I started to found unlocking adhd as well besides seeing the need is at that time, you know, midlife crisis, right, you're wondering, okay, what's my purpose in life, kind of thing, and I went for a free online workshop on finding my purpose, okay, and after a couple of exercises over a couple of days, the two-word purpose and all that you know, I came up with was uncovering diamonds. So let it sink in, right, I really feel that those who are neurodivergent are diamonds, but they're covered. They are value, but they're covered. They're of value, but they're covered. Shame, trauma you know all the negative stuff, right? So what we're trying to do is help people identify and access their strengths because it's linked to their interests and we know the ADHD wiring is very much interest, novelty based, right? If we can identify the interests, that can turn to a strength and have the tools we can thrive.

Neil Milliken: 26:28

So that's what I'm trying to do ultimately and you know I'm lucky in that I found and one of the reasons I've maybe had the success in my career was that I found something that I was interested in, that that was socially motivated, so I've stuck with it right, which you know. Having that something that's that interesting and you clearly have a purpose has enabled me to maybe stick at something that other people, where they haven't found the thing yet, didn't have that luxury of really working into, something that enabled them to build and be consistent on. So I think that looking to unlock people's strengths is super important. It's one of the reasons why I work with Genius Within in the UK. They're doing strength-based assessments and coaching and so on.

Neil Milliken: 27:16

It unlocks that potential because we have the latent potential and neurodivergent people can contribute immensely to society, not that neurotypical people don't I'm not putting you down neurotypicals. We need both in society, but generally people haven't been understood and therefore haven't been able to contribute fully, which then has an impact on them and you know, bringing everything together. And one more thing that I'm trying to do in.

Moonlake Lee: 27:40

Singapore is because I'm really we're almost at ground zero, right, you know, the last couple of years is we are now the government, the Academy of Medicine is revising the clinical practice guidelines on ADHD Because these were drafted in 2014 and it only covers children.

Neil Milliken: 27:59

Yeah.

Moonlake Lee: 27:59

Until now.

Moonlake Lee: 28:00

So now they're revising it and you know I'm really grateful that I'm on the committee, the task force, and so for the first time and we're done with this and looking at global best practices we'll be including practice guidelines for adult ADHD yeah as well and I mean I think that's super important, given, you know, people's perceptions are it's something that happens with young boys, uh, you know, but you don't stop as you go into adulthood and and you know that under diagnosis of women with ADHD has has been long been the case.

Neil Milliken: 28:34

So I think that that's important work. And, and what you said about the, the classification as a special educational need rather than a disability many people amongst in the community don't consider themselves to be disabled. But the legal classification has a purpose in that it enables you to get support and it levels the playing field, because if you come from a wealthy background, you can afford the diagnosis, the medication, the care, and then it's less of an issue. If you come from a less privileged background, you can't afford the diagnosis, you can't afford the medication, the care, and you know, then it's less of an issue. If you come from a less privileged background, you can't afford the diagnosis, you can't afford the medication because it's expensive. Doing it privately then, you know, it exacerbates the issue. So that sort of recognition of the impact and the support I think is really important. How it's then framed because people don't necessarily want to claim a disability identity is another issue.

Neil Milliken: 29:30

I differentiate it between disability as accommodation or as a categorization, versus disability as an identity.

Neil Milliken: 29:37

Yeah.

Moonlake Lee: 29:38

And it's not an identity right. It's really for accommodation and categorization purposes.

Neil Milliken: 29:44

For accommodation and categorization purposes, unless people choose to identify with their neurodivergence, and I think that that's something that comes as society matures in its attitudes towards it. I think people in the global north, particularly UK and US, are much more comfortable identifying and creating an identity around neurodivergence, but that's because society is more mature and more accommodating in general. Not totally accommodating and not totally mature, I can tell you, but it's definitely further along that path.

Antonio Santos: 30:19

So we've run out of time but, but let me just bring just a small, because I think it's really important also for us at least to mention is that women have been underrepresented on studies on ADHD and, as it proved by your statement, you have been diagnosed at the age of 50. Okay, and I think this is also relates with that fact that oh, I know women no, that's just a kid's thing. So that underrepresentation has been a huge impact in society and in the way how the specific needs of women have been considered on ADHD.

Moonlake Lee: 30:59

Yes, yes, for sure, yes, and we're doing more. So we actually did a documentary a few years ago with the regional broadcaster on women with ADHD. It's been viewed over 330,000 times on YouTube. Right now and next month I'm speaking to the Academy of Medicine College of Psychiatrists on how ADHD impacts women. So we have a lot more work to do, but that's where the fun is right.

Neil Milliken: 31:24

Yeah, but I'm glad you're doing it right and that's super important. So I need to thank our friends at Amazon for helping keep us on air, and thank you once again, Moonlight, for coming on and I know it's late where you are, so staying up to talk to us.

Moonlake Lee: 31:40

My pleasure. Thank you for giving me a chance to share, and let's keep in touch. The world is small, thank you.