Who gets to joke about pain—and why it matters

What if the fastest way to change a mind is to make it laugh first? We sit down with comedian and writer-performer Julliet Burton to explore how humor can turn stigma into understanding without losing its edge. Julliet shares the craft behind her sold-out Edinburgh Fringe runs and international tours, from relentless note-taking and collaborative rewrites to crowdwork that welcomes, not wounds. She breaks down the ethics—punching up versus punching down, consent in the room, and the difference between offense and harm—so jokes land with care and still hit hard.

We also dive into the realities of being a modern comedian in a fragmented internet. Every set gets filmed; every clip is a judgment call. How do you showcase your voice without burning material? How do you keep comedy accessible with captions and descriptions when platforms rarely pay? Julliet lays out a pragmatic path: use short-form to invite people into the live experience, where community is built and artists can actually make a living. The room matters—whether physical or virtual—because a shared laugh can flip the nervous system from threat to safety, turning strangers into a temporary family.

And yes, we go there: can AI do comedy? Julliet argues that while models can mimic structure, they can’t replicate stakes, awkwardness, or the human relief that fuels real laughter. Authenticity isn’t a garnish; it’s the joke’s engine, and audiences can tell. Along the way, we talk cultural translation (from “wheelie bins” to Dutch “klicos”), corporate gigs that encourage brave conversations about mental health, and why directional humor changes what’s socially acceptable over time. If you care about inclusive comedy, lived experience, content strategy, or the future of creativity, this one’s for you. If it moves you, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review—what’s one boundary you think comedy helped shift?

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome Back, Juliet
• 1:40 Tours, Awards, and Fringe Success
• 3:43 Comedy From Lived Disability Experience
• 7:40 Punching Up, Consent, and Harm vs Offense
• 12:02 Crafting Material: Notes, Rewrites, Crowdwork
• 15:12 Adapting Across Cultures and Countries
• 19:00 Clips, Platforms, and Paying Creators
• 22:02 Live Community, Virtual Gigs, and Access
• 24:15 AI, Authenticity, and The Human Laugh
• 26:00 Where To Find Juliet

Transcript

Neil Milliken: 0:01

Hello and welcome to AXSChat. I am really delighted that we're welcoming back a former guest, back again, and someone I'm very excited to bring back to AXSChat, which is Julliet Burton. Julliet Welcome to the show. For those that have shorter memories, Juliette is a comedian and public speaker and does comparing and did a fantastic job when she compared our global accessibility awareness for us during COVID when everyone was trying to um adapt to remote working and doing remote conferences and everything else, and did a great job, and it was such fun bringing comedy into a corporate setting. And I had such fun going, maybe I should yes, well, maybe we'll cut this one. Maybe I can keep that for the outtakes. And and but it was a great, it was a really um it was a it was a great fun thing to do. I've been a fan of you ever since I first saw you at the Business Disability Forum conference ages ago. Um I think that comedy is so important and having fun is so important in times where people are challenged. So welcome back and please tell us more about what you've been up to over the the last few years.

Julliete Burton: 1:16

Oh gosh, uh thank you so much for having me, firstly. It's just um such a joy to come and do any podcast, but particularly to be a return guest uh and about things that I'm feeling so passionate about and that have really underpinned most of my life, really. Um at the uh Business Disability Forum, I I worked for I think a couple of different um years, uh, 2019 and 2016, 2015. And since so let's start around there, 2019. So um the last few years, obviously, we did uh a lot of shows online um during 2020 and 2021. Um since then, um sold out to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in 2024, every single show totally sold out. Um I was shortlisted of the Disability Power 100. Um I have been on tour uh three different years, um UK tours. And oh gosh, I've been uh performing uh in around Europe, mainly in uh the Netherlands a lot. Uh that's had some wonderful shows up at Edinburgh Fringe this year and last year that had sold-out shows and um a couple of awards. Uh this year best shortlisted show, shortlisted, let me get this right, shortlisted for Best New Show at Brighton Fringe, uh, which was lovely. And I've been a regular guest on BBC Access All uh podcast, which is the BBC's disability podcast. And uh I will also be coming out as a guest on uh the award-winning podcast, Drunk Women Solving Crimes, which is one of my favourite ones uh as well. I'm currently writing a book proposal as well. So whenever people are listening to this, lots of stuff going on and lots and lots of new shows as well. Currently on tour with my best of show, which is the best bits of my last 10 years of doing comedy. Uh I mean, I've been doing comedy for even longer than that, but 10 years ago, 2015 was my first ever sold-out total run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. So to celebrate that, I thought we would look back at uh the best bits of those last 10 years worth of show. And uh that's currently on tour around the UK.

Neil Milliken: 3:08

So not a lot then.

Julliete Burton: 3:10

Well, I mean, I didn't even mention the voiceover work and the um audiobook I've been recording as well. Which is amazing. Lots and lots of stuff.

Neil Milliken: 3:18

Yeah, no, it's amazing, and and really enjoy the material. And I I love the authenticity and the fact that you bring disability and lived experience into your material. So obviously I'm familiar with it, and and uh Deborah was talking off-air about how funny she was finding it, but maybe you could talk a bit to the the audience about the material and what informs your your comedy.

Julliete Burton: 3:42

Absolutely. So I am disabled. I have been diagnosed with 15 different mental illnesses, some of which I live with continuously, um that have a life-limiting effect on my life and also life in inhibiting effects uh on my quality of life. I also have ADHD in autism, which actually were diagnosed in the last couple of years. So the last time we spoke, Neil, they weren't diagnosed yet. So that's been interesting to go on that sort of process, that journey. And I also have uh some physical conditions that have been diagnosed as being becoming worsening over time. So in the future there will be some physical disability that will be coming along the road. Um but I feel very prepared for it, having worked in the disability sector for so long, which is wonderful. I love performing comedy because it breaks down that barrier and increases the understanding. There's always tension when I talk about some of the more, I don't like the word extreme or acute, but language is clunky, especially when we talk about some of these experiences. But for example, I was sectioned under the Mental Health Act when I was 17, um, and I have experienced hallucinations, full-blown audible, visual, and tactile hallucinations, as well as very, very acute eating disorder experiences, both anorexia, bulimia, a binge eating disorder. And in the past, my other conditions, such as my obsessive-compulsive disorder, also were very inhibiting to my quality of life. When I talk about some of those experiences to people and my depression and suicidal ideation in the past, um, I've learned that if there's if there's tension building anyway, then the best way of breaking that down is to find a way to make people laugh. And when it comes to performing comedy about that, that's led me to have some incredible experiences, like touring in Australia, New Zealand, around the UK, and seeing the the similarities between between people's experiences, no matter where they live in the world, um, and hearing their stories and seeing the universal human truth of struggling. It's struggle to be a human and mental illness like creativity, um, are two of the most human experiences we can have. And I love being able to craft comedy and find the silly in some of my personal experiences, but also not just about my mental ill health or my ADHD or my autism, but about the stigma around surrounding it and about other experiences in my life, my my world that aren't uh defined by those particular conditions. So I think one of my favourite reviews from this year's Edinburgh Fringe said that I was relatable as a certain swear word. So relatable is the key thing there that I love. Like it's being able to make people in the audience, if they've experienced similar things, know that they're not alone, making the people in the audience who haven't experienced some of these things understand them a bit more if they're curious or open-minded, but most importantly, making every single person in that room laugh and feel united in a sort of church of comedy. Because if we're all laughing together, then we're united. And I love, I love that so much. Comedy has the power to take down the powers that be, you know, and whether that's um a political satire satire kind of comedy or whether it's the the big bads of stigma, misunderstanding, miss misconceptions, inequality, discrimination. Uh, if we're making making people laugh about it, then it's the quickest way of changing somebody's mind about a situation is crafting a joke, I found.

Debra Ruh: 7:00

I agree. And and I also think you get that um that is the way society learns and changes our minds, too. Because I look back at old comedy and words and things we said and that we've done and and how we've all tried to be better at it. It's like, no, but you can't say that. But the our comics are the ones that challenge us and that really stretch us to it's like, and I'll give you an example. It's a silly example. I was talking to Neil about it. I said, Neil, I'm gonna talk about this, but just an example. I have a daughter with Down syndrome, and she's uh 38 years old, Julliet, and she's just a very interesting woman. She's she's not your typical you would think of people with Down syndrome. She's a very complex woman, like every other person with anyway. But one thing that we were doing, a friend of mine came over and she said, Oh, Deborah, there's this silly thing on Google, and it takes a picture of yeah, I take a picture of you and it'll it'll roast you. So we all did it. I took a picture of it, it's like, oh, what you're trying to do with that white hair. Anyway, they made fun of me and it was cute and clever. And then my boyfriend did it, my friends did it, and Sarah walks in the room. I said, Sarah, come on, this is so fun. And I took a picture of Sarah and the ad, and it came back and it said, it is not appropriate to be making fun of. And it would it roast her? And so I was like, well, first of all, you go Google, but then I thought, but wait a minute, she wants to be roasted too, Julliet. So I so I I just wanted to bring that out and then ask you what I think is a very complicated question, and that I know you've worked with corporations and you've gone in there and you're talking to them about different things. I mean, Neil gave you a glowing review. But how, Juliet, do you go in there and talk about these mental health issues, especially when we're hiding from them or we're trying to be conscious? And it's like, Google, does Sarah have the right with a young lady with Down syndrome that wanted to play to have the app make fun of her like it made fun of me? Or, oh my gosh, it's so complicated. So I was just curious, how do you take on these topics? Because these corporations need to talk about this stuff. They need to. We're all drowning in this mental health crisis all over the world. But how do you try to address it with yeah?

Julliete Burton: 9:14

Well, there's a couple of there's about three different things I'd love to pull out of that because um you bring up some really interesting topics. Um, firstly, the idea that comedy stretches our boundaries, right? Um I think that's, I mean, it is classically in all of mythology, even the trickster characters, the Loki in in the Norse Norse mythology, the characters that tread the boundaries, and even in Shakespearean plays, you know, the the uh comedic relief, the fool, um, is the one that can say the truth to the to the king, um, you know, the power that be, uh, that be that is, and um, they're able to give them that sort of grounding within the comedic, the truth wrapped in a lie is what a joke is, uh, according to my old um national film and television school tutor, who was one of the great um producers uh of uh comedy shows, uh his name's Bill Dare. Uh he did things like Dead Ring Ringers and Spitting Image. Um, that was his take. The idea that all of these characters, the comedians, the comedy characters, they tread the boundaries of what's acceptable in society and what isn't acceptable. And that's where that titillation of laughter comes from. So imagining society as being a big circle and then what is acceptable being on the out inside and what isn't acceptable being on the outside, we are literally massaging the audience into accepting more and more into that circle to become socially acceptable. So, for example, something like disability, if it used to be socially unacceptable on the outside, if we're laughing together about it in an informed way. So this is where the question around your Google issue comes in, or any anybody making what is what is appropriate to make fun of. Well, it firstly depends on the context. It secondly depends on the voice tests for saying the joke. So perhaps there's certain things that more universally accepted to be able to make fun of because they're more universally accepted as things that we can take down. So every joke needs to punch up, that's the phrase. So we are punching up to discrimination, politicians. Um, you know, maybe for me it would be misogynistic views or sexist views as well. That's just again in my context, my area, but not necessarily for every uh comedian and not necessarily for every audience that I'm performing to. So I'll adapt my material sometimes based on that audience. It also for me, if I'm talking about my experiences of my disabilities, it needs to come from an informed perspective, being aware of my intention behind every joke. Like who is it that I'm belittling or what is it that I'm belittling, and in what way am I doing it? So even in an audience when I'm doing crowd work, quite often I I love, I love this era of my career where I'm so much more confident now, being able to uh assess a room and assess what the characters are in the room as best as I can, my best knowledge, making them feel incredibly welcome, making them feel like they're heroes in ways that they feel they've consented to. So making sure that I'm not picking on anybody or bullying or belittling, that's just my personal ethic, ethical vibe. Um, but the people who are clearly leaning forward and wanting to be a part of it. So yeah, making sure that every joke is from my perspective, I feel like I would stand behind, stand by it. You know, if somebody really took me to a court of law over a joke, would I be willing to be held accountable for that joke? Yeah, 100%. Every single joke that comes out of my mouth, I would defend if anyone wanted to chat with me about it. The other thing is being aware of the difference between offense caused and harm caused. So there is a difference between harm and offense. Some jokes actually can harm audience members. Some jokes, some are might split split an audience or they might cause offense. That is different to harm. And I suppose in the Google instance that you're talking about with Sarah, I think it would be amazing if Sarah herself were able to make jokes about her experiences and what she what she finds funny. Um, you know, I make fun about my experiences, what I find funny about my weird little brain and my idiosyncrasies. Sometimes they're related to my conditions. And in the context of my nearest and dearest, like the people that know me the best, they will make poke fun at me and poke fun at my conditions and the way that it affects my behaviour. They also know me well enough to know when it's appropriate to do that, potentially not in the middle of me having a depressive episode, you know, um, or potentially not when I'm having um a very difficult ADHD overwhelm and autism over sensory overload. At other times, we can all bond with each other by, you know, making bringing light to it. Because some of those experiences can be very dark, particularly the discrimination and the stigma and the situations around it. Finding the funny is the way of finding the light within the darkness. So for me, that's that's definitely the point of comedy. So yeah, the the I think comedy has a great role to play in society politically as well, um, and as well as being able to educate and inform people. It's not my job to educate and inform, my job is to entertain. If people happen to get educated along the way, well, that's just fantastic and I love that as well.

Antonio Santos: 14:15

Julia, you talking about your journey and and the way how you work, but going deep, what really shaped your approach to comedy?

Julliete Burton: 14:24

What shapes my approach to comedy? I think I mean in the in the creative process. Do you mean in the creative process, Antonio?

Antonio Santos: 14:30

Yeah, yes, yes.

Julliete Burton: 14:31

I sort of craft it. Um so it's I love this so much. We're getting into kind of the the actual um uh pragmatic approach to how I how I craft it. I'll often have um my notepad with me. I always have a notepad everywhere I go. Um anytime something that I think of that makes me laugh, or there's an interesting take, um, or there's something in it, like a new, a new perspective on something, or a new analogy of something's a lot like something, I'll write it down. Then I'll take another day where I'll um when I have time to be able to take writing days, transfer all of those notes from my notepad into my completor. Sometimes I'll email myself notes when I come up with things and I'm just like, right, got an idea, there you go. Often I will do some part of the writing process in a collaboration. Now that might be with somebody else who is also very funny and we'll just like go over each other's notes and sort of workshop it. But the best way of doing it is when stuff organically comes out of regularly performing. So I'll be performing a routine that perhaps I feel a bit more comfortable with and confident. I'll slip in a few new ideas, see where it goes, and allow enough time in my sets or my show, wherever wherever it's being performed, to play with the audience and sort of see what works. And quite often some of that crowd work stuff could develop into something that I'll keep as a regular joke. The crowd work usually is quite specific to the place that I'm in. And quite usually it might be commenting on something that's happened during the day. Some of those new ideas will start to go in and I'll see what works, see what doesn't, see how the audience responds. Because honestly, the big thing that I think a lot of audiences might forget is that it's a conversation. Comedy is a conversation between the audience. Whatever energy they bring to it, you're going to bounce back of it. It's going to be reflected back and forward. So if an audience is particularly up for it and really energetic and energized, and they're giving you as much response as much kind of energy back, then we have more fun. We're going to want to play. I'm going to give them such a joyful, joyous kind of experience. Some audiences aren't feeling that. You know, some people, whether it's the weather, whether it's the politics that are going on at the time, what the news headlines is, sometimes an audience is not feeling as energized. And that's totally okay. Sometimes it's just the fact there's not good enough air conditioning and it's a really hot room, you know. We can't force our lovely audience to experience it in the way that we want them to. And you have to let go of that control. So it's this gorgeous meditative experience, in a way, of being able to press that reset button on stage again and again, let them enjoy it in the way that they want to enjoy it, but also play with it and call it out sometimes and make sure that it's in a way that is inclusive and uplifting for everybody, not in a doing this in the way that I want you to way. But making sure that we're all in it together. Like that's my approach, is we're one big team. It's definitely not the approach of the old school stuff that we've mentioned earlier on in this podcast, which is the uh, you know, the bullying tactics of singling out uh an audience member and making them feel small. Sometimes with some audience members and some comedians, that that persona that they have that might work. For me, I even when I'm you know playing with the audience, it would definitely always be with a you're amazing, you're incredible, I love, I love you guys. Thank you so much for being here. That's my kind of attitude is that we're all in it together. That's how I approach it.

Neil Milliken: 17:46

So I mean I yeah. So it's it's less of the Jimmy Carr then really.

Julliete Burton: 17:51

I mean, don't have much in common with Jimmy Carr.

Neil Milliken: 17:55

No, so some people quite seem to quite like going along to take a verbal beating, but but that's it's certainly not for everyone. And I was curious, it was sort of sort of following on from what Antonio was saying, you you're saying that you you know you're you're interacting with the audience and you're adapting stuff and and so on. And you mentioned the context, but you've you also said you've been on tour in the Netherlands and in Australia. So the cultural context is different in those countries. Now, Australia, you know, they there are similarities, but it is different culturally. Do you find that the sort of audience reactions are different? Do you find that different you have to adapt the routines based upon the cultural context?

Julliete Burton: 18:37

Always. Um I think that if uh any comedian worth assault has to be aware. Like uh for me, before going to a different country, I like to make sure that I check in with some of the references. You know, it's as simple as some jokes have certain punchlines that are words that don't make sense in a in another country's context. You know, I think one of my jokes ends with a reference to a wheelie bin, but uh that's not how what they call that sort of bin in the Netherlands. So out there I had to call it a klico, which is what they I what they call one of their bins. Again, you checking it over with people beforehand if there's something that really hinges on it, um, I think is vital. Another as another thing that I do uh is particularly when I'm on tour in different countries, is definitely write stuff about the country because we need to give it that context from the very beginning that I am a fish out of water, you know, and what is it that this new person's, you know, my my uh perspective on travelling to a new country or a new city. And that just doesn't, that does is not only appropriate for different countries, it's also appropriate for different towns that I go to because it's that kind of glorious thing of having a new perspective on something that for that audience might feel very familiar and very mundane, being able to come in with the kind of again, fish out of water attitude and being able to either comment on it in in sort of the absurdity of something that seems so common for them, or um, or making yourself the odd oddity in the story of whatever it is you're you're talking about. And I love that with you asked about the audience differences. I mean, Australia, I would say they they laugh so much more generously and loudly than any other country I've ever been to. Um absolutely loved them. New Zealand seemed to be so much more engaged with the intellectual side of it and still very generous, but uh lots of people wanting to chat after the shows about their experiences out there. Um around Europe, it's just been glorious to be able to find those English-speaking gigs. You know, it's the English-speaking gigs that I end up doing. And therefore, you have this international audience anyway. It's an international, it's an audience that come together to meet other people who are perhaps from other countries, um who are English-speaking countries, but you know, from South America, from all across Europe, and finding the common ground amongst people from very different cultures in that sort of international, nomadic kind of community, in a way. Um, I revel in in making it work for that audience and making making sure that I'm finding that the universal global commonalities that unite us as humans, which I I adore. It makes me makes me so happy to do.

Neil Milliken: 21:10

That's wonderful. I've been watching, I've been doom strolling Instagram, and um I end up flicking through loads of comedy stuff on Instagram, and there was something that came up in my feed this morning which made me laugh. There was a Romanian comedian came on and said, you know, the problem for you English people is that we all understand your language. And we have stupid people, but you don't know our language.

Julliete Burton: 21:36

Yeah, absolutely.

Neil Milliken: 21:37

So you you're disadvantaged because you know, we all know what stupid things you're saying. So it it it made me laugh, but but I also think about you know, there wasn't really loads of comedy on social media to the extent that there is now. There's tons and tons of clips, and uh, there's a rich body of stuff, and it's it's you know, given how a lot of the internet is now paywalled, you know, have you found that that that you're putting more stuff you said earlier that you're doing stuff, uh quite a lot of stuff on TikTok and and and Instagram and and so on. Have you found that that since COVID as as stuff has gone more online that you're doing has it changed the way that you produce comedy and how you get uh your material out to audiences?

Julliete Burton: 22:22

Definitely. It's been a challenging learning curve, uh, but every every gig now that any any of us do, um it's become standard practice to film every single one, even if it is just on your iPhone. Ideally, it would be a better quality than um just an iPhone or other phones obviously are available. But then to be able to clip those up. Um, and how which clips are you gonna put out there? Because sometimes you really rely on crowd work to be able to put it, put those clips out there because that will be individual to the room. You're not burning through all of your material that you don't really want everybody to see until they come to your shows. So it's a delicate balance of being able to showcase yourself to potential people who might want to book you, um either for corporate gigs or for uh other comedy gigs, and also for audiences to get a flavor of you before they buy tickets to come see your tour show, for example. Have that balanced with not burning through all of your material so that nobody has any mystery and no nobody's surprised when they come along. And also you're not getting paid for the any of that. All of that's just being put out there for free, whether it's on YouTube unless you're monetizing it. And so it does mean that it's really important more than ever that people do support live comedy. I think that it's lovely that people are able to engage in new ways, but then the added thing is make sure that you follow that up by going to bite to go to see those comedians or book them for your corporate event. Like that's how we make a living. Otherwise, we really will struggle with the rising cost of living just like anybody else, uh, to keep a roof over our heads. And I suppose another aspect of it is that the industry is leaning much more heavily on the content creators. So every year you see more and more content creators putting on shows at various festivals. Now, for me, I think this is wonderful because it's a new art form, but it is a different art form. You know, it's it's different. And some people are able to do both comedy like short form comedy, long form comedy, content creating comedy, which is you know very, very short form, and being, you know, live on stage, or they can do it all. Other people have certain strengths that they play to. And uh for me, I love doing voiceover work and I love doing editing. I have yet to merge that kind of short form content online. I'm much more up for clipping up my onstage routines um into shorter clips. I try to make it as accessible as possible. So um for anything that's a visual gag, trying to do some sort of voiceover to make sure that anyone who's visually impaired uh will be able to also access the comedy, making sure that there's also captions as much as I possibly can, and even adding extra comedy into the captions so that you have little stickers flashing up that'll add hopefully to some of them of the jokes. So getting more playful with that, and equally with all of that, that's extra work, that's extra time out of my day, all of which I'm not getting paid for. No.

Neil Milliken: 25:04

So I understand. It's it's a challenge because I mean you need to get paid, right? We want you to be paid so that you can continue doing the work that you're doing. At the same time, with the sort of the fragmentation of the internet, it's very difficult for everybody to access stuff and and be able to afford to, because there's all of these sort of different platforms that are all asking you to pay. So it you know, it's it's it's as you say, finding that balance between reaching an audience and getting paid and being able to read. Antonio, I know you also had a question.

Julliete Burton: 25:36

I was just gonna add in that something like Twitch is a wonderful place where um, you know, people can donate if they would like to, if you have a donation, and they can uh give you tips really. And I think that's nice, a nice model to work by sometimes. It's a lot like the free free fringe up at the Edinburgh Fringe, uh, where you know people who can afford to give a bit more helps to cover other um people who can't afford to give anything. Um and I think again, in an ex making comedy and art accessible to people, it needs to not only be accessible within access needs, it needs to be accessible within financial needs as well. So sorry about the buzzing. Would you like me to pause? Oh no, it's finished. What else?

Antonio Santos: 26:14

But on the platforms, when we're putting original content out there, do you feel that sometimes the platforms end up favoring other creators who just steal your content, they just copy it. And sometimes they build their own popularity and following, taking advantage of the content of someone else.

Julliete Burton: 26:35

It's very hard to police plagiarism in that way now that the internet has you know it's taken over. Again, this is why I personally feel that as much as I love a lot of the connections that can be made on the internet, and please, if anyone who's listening to this or engaging with this, would like to find my social media. Instagram is where I tend to spend the most time, but also I I am on Blue Sky, I'm on uh Facebook, and uh I can give all my details of socials at the end and YouTube, of course, as well. But I would say that being at a live comedy event, if you can, and whether and that can be live comedy via a streaming, you know, service or uh via Twitch or an online Zoom, Zoom virtual gig, those do still happen for the very reason that you you just mentioned that the there's sometimes a global community you want to reach, and the best way of doing that is virtually. And I loved doing virtual gigs. For me, that was using the community idea, but changing it from a live audience to being in the chat at the side of your virtual show. Um, I think being able to unite people in that way is is vital. And a lot of I was working for a mental health research charity for two years in the past five, and a lot of the latest research is really supporting the fact that that social cure of mental illness is right there for us, and it needs to be that live event, coming to the festivals, the live comedy. I I really feel passionately about that. So to come and join us, come and join us and remember what it feels like to laugh hysterically at a comedian on stage with other people around you that are complete strangers because you've got a family right there.

Neil Milliken: 28:02

The atmosphere in in the room when people are laughing, it it's uplifting. So this has been fabulous. I've got one final thing before we close. So we're we're running over a little bit. I really wanted to ask you, following up from Antanya's question about content creation and so on. A lot of content is being generated right now. And there's, you know, you you talked about plagiarism from people, but there's potential plagiarism through AI. Do you think AI can do comedy or will it always fall flat on its face?

Julliete Burton: 28:34

So far, and I have tested the theory. I I do have some very close friends who work in AI, and uh, we have big, big disagreements about it, particularly around creativity. Because, like I said earlier, for me, the most human things possible are experiencing poor mental health and you know, an element of madness, and then uh creation, like creating things, um, whether that be life, whether that be nurturing a plant, whether it's creating beautiful art, there's the element of the human in it. And there is something very disconnected when you see visual art created by AI, and when I've tested the joke writing ability, there's nothing like the weird and wonderful mind map that comes from a human. AI can learn how to write in a specific way, but they don't understand the absurdity of what it's like to have eyebrows and elbows and to say the wrong thing to your in-laws and to blurt out the wrong thing in the middle of the wrong context, and to feel awkward, and to make your friends laugh in a group chat about something ridiculous. And there's something about the telling of it as well that every joke, there's an authenticity that the audience feels. And I know that because sometimes I might be telling a joke that I've told for too long, and it's it's now something I don't connect with anymore, or it's not relevant to my current experience. The audience picks up on that. It's a beautiful magic. Where we detect authenticity in somebody. We detect where that joke's coming from and whether that person is passionate about getting that point of view across. And sadly, or maybe fortunately, AI's point of view is incredibly removed. It's something that I think that we're still we we need comedy in the way that we have evolved to need comedy. Laughter was one of the first things that we learned to do after, you know, singing and and and screaming. And it's something that, you know, predates language laughter. It means that it shows our nervous system that we're safe if if we're laughing. Our whole nervous system calms down from sending signals of you don't need to fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. It means that we're safe. It's breaking that tension. And I think that AI can't learn that.

Neil Milliken: 30:46

No, I agree. It can't make you snort your drink out of your nose in the same way that human comedians can. And I hope that it never gets to that point. Thank you so much. It's been it's been a wonderful conversation. I need to thank Amazon and MyClearText for supporting us to stay on air, stay captioned, etc. So where can we find you? Do you have a website? We know that you're already on most of the social channels. Do you have some crazy hand or or is it just your name?

Julliete Burton: 31:14

I'll run down all of them. So uh my website is Juliet Burton. Juliet is spelt with two T's and an E, like the French version of the name, because I'm clinging on to any ounce of being European. And but it is Juliet Juliet like the English Shakespeare uh character that you sprout about in your English GCSEs, but it's like the French in your French GCSEs. So I'm like two GCSEs in one woman, but I'm trying to tell you I'm a lot of hard work. Um Juliet Burton.co.uk. Um you can find me on there, but you can also find me on socials at Juliet underscore Burton on Instagram, Juliet Burton on Blue Squats, Blue Sky and uh TikTok. On Facebook, it's Juliet Burton Writer Performer, because I set that one up before any of the others, and that was the one that I went for. And I also have Juliet Burton underscore voiceover on Instagram as well, if you want to see some voiceover work that I do. On YouTube, it's the Juliet Burton, uh, which makes me sound very grand.

Neil Milliken: 32:06

One and only.

Julliete Burton: 32:07

The only one.

Neil Milliken: 32:09

Thank you. It's it's been a it's been a real pleasure.

Julliete Burton: 32:11

Thank you so much, and please do reach out to me. Thank you for having me um on here, and I hope to hear from everybody who's listening to this soon. I hope to be back on this podcast maybe. Maybe let's not leave at five years.

Antonio Santos: 32:20

I agree. Hope not.