When Safety Meets Access: Can AI Become A Civil Right?

If AI is rewriting the rules of work and the web, who makes sure accessibility isn’t left behind? We sit down with  Rylin Rodgers, Director of Disability Policy at Microsoft, to chart where policy, product, and lived experience meet—and how that intersection can unlock rights, innovation, and real productivity gains for everyone.

We start with three pillars that guide Microsoft’s approach: shaping digital and AI regulation so it accelerates accessibility rather than blocks it, modernising outdated benefits and employment systems that sideline disabled talent, and advancing civil and human rights through secure voting, accessible transportation, and universal connectivity.  Rylin explains why safety and privacy can’t be the only guardrails for AI; accessibility must be designed into models from the start through disability-informed safety prompts, representative data, and inclusive defaults that output accessible content.

The conversation moves from policy to practice: captions that handle non-typical speech, AI-generated image descriptions, plain-language conversions, and focus tools that reduce cognitive load. We examine the awareness gap—how many people use accessibility features without naming them and how many more don’t know what they already have. Framing accessibility as a productivity multiplier gives CIOs a reason to train and deploy at scale. We also explore bringing accessibility beyond the usual rooms, putting inclusive coding and AI testing on center stage at mainstream tech events.

Looking ahead, Rylin outlines a ten-year horizon where inaccessible sites are fixed at creation or routed around by AI, where disabled innovators shape agentic tools, and where support expands to a wider spectrum of needs. The pace of change can be tiring, so we dig into discoverability, training, and regulatory guardrails that help people keep up without burning out. If you care about AI ethics, inclusive design, or the future of work, you’ll find concrete insights and next steps to build a more accessible world—by default.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a review with the one accessibility feature you wish every app shipped with by default.

Transcript

Meet Microsoft’s Disability Policy Lead

Neil Milliken 0:00

Hello and welcome to AXS Chat. I'm delighted that we're joined today by Rylin Rodgers, who is the Director of Disability Policy at Microsoft. Rylan, it's great to have you with us. I know it's taken us a little while to get this organized, so we're excited to have you join us. Can you tell us a little bit about what your role as director of disability policy in a global organization like Microsoft actually entails?

Three Pillars Of Disability Policy

Global Policy Landscape And Reach

Rylin Rodgers 0:27

Yeah, it's great to be here talking about my favorite topic, which is disability policy. I often say I have the best job at Microsoft because I get to sit as part of the accessibility team in partnership with our global government affairs and really lead the conversation on where can Microsoft impact public policy that impacts all of us and people with disabilities. So I believe that disability exists in every community, in every world. And so using that sort of rationale disability policy, it's every part of policy. Realistically, we have to narrow it and really focus on where we can make a difference. And so we work in sort of three main areas. One, it would be no surprise to the listeners when you think about Microsoft. So we're thinking about digital technology and technology in general, and what are the regulations and laws that maybe can accelerate accessibility, or what are the risks of laws blocking accessibility? And so we're able to share our expertise and our perspective on that. It's really critical right now as the world is responding to what AI is and what AI can do. And we see lots of efforts to think about regulations in that space. And one of the things that's critical for all of us is that we don't just think about safety and privacy. Those are absolutely foundationally important when we think about regulating AI, but we have to at the same time think about accessibility because we don't want there to be regulations that protect privacy but block accessible use cases. So that's one bucket where I get to focus. Another bucket is about workforce participation and really economic participation. We know that in the United States and globally, disabled talent are often on the sidelines and not bringing ourselves to every economy. And Microsoft has a long experience of really benefiting from the innovation and leadership of disabled talent and sharing that experience and what it's meant to our company, how it's driven accessibility, how it's driven innovation, frankly, how it's driven profits gives us a voice thinking about what are the public policies that block disabled talent. In many countries, the systems that were created around disability were based on really outdated assumptions about what disability is. And that has left us with a legacy of benefit systems that are so complicated that they can really impact disabled people's ability to participate in work. And how do we partner with the disability community to raise those issues and modernize public policy so we're benefiting from everyone's talent? Then the sort of third bucket, which really absolutely connects to the other two, is that we think about accessibility as a fundamental right. We also think about connectivity in that way. It's that gives us opportunities to connect in partnership with the disability community on civil and human rights issues that can look like partnership in digital access to elections and making sure that people in all democracies have the opportunity to vote in a private, secure way. We also think about it in terms of accessible transportation. And I think about that as a bit of a circle and a cycle because when we think about workforce participation and really benefiting from technology, the infrastructure of transportation is often key and for disabled talent. So those are the three areas I get to work on policy. So I get to sort of bring our experience in partnership with the community, in partnership with our whole company, and really think about where we can use our voice to modernize public policy. One of the other questions people ask is like, where in the world do you do that? And the world's a big place and policy is moving fast. Obviously, we're a US-based company, so we do work in the US, but we're also spent quite a lot of time and energy overseas. The EU and the UK are moving faster in terms of new accessibility regulations than the US. So that gives us a place to play there. We also um really think about scope and scale by engaging with the UN system to make sure that we are connecting and really engaging to the broadest extent possible with as many countries that are grappling with these issues. That was a really long answer, but I don't know.

Hopes And Risks Of AI For Access

Debra Ruh 4:58

Got a lot to do though. So welcome to the program. I've watched your career for a long time. I was telling you off-air that when I first started in this business, early 2000s, Microsoft was often the only corporation that was at the table when I was at different countries. And often they were being soundly beat too, because people wanted them to do even more. But I really appreciated how Microsoft really, really was showing up in the beginnings. But you also mentioned one of our favorite topics, AI. And so, and of course, Microsoft's very, very engaged in that conversation. And we're really glad, Rylan, that Microsoft is still committed to our community. And that I like your title and that your title includes the word disability. So applause for Microsoft for that because other brands have made decisions not to do that. So compliments. But I I believe in AI, and I believe that AI has the ability to uh really make us not have to talk about our disabilities as much. And instead, we can just be fully included because we all know how to fully include all people now. We just have to have the will to do it. But I am curious from your own personal experience and also from Microsoft's lens, what do you what are y'all? I know you're heavily engaged with it, but how do you think it's going to transform the independence for people with disabilities? But at the same time, there's so many beautiful, wonderful benefits, but we also see some risks and gaps. And so that's a very easy question to answer. I can't wait for you to answer it very quickly, but at the same time, I think our community is hopeful.

From Features To Adoption Gaps

Making Accessibility A Company Habit

Rylin Rodgers 6:28

Yeah, there's so much there. And that's really fair because AI is not one thing. We all have benefited from the waves of artificial intelligence that have been going on since the 1950s. And we're definitely in a moment where we're at an acceleration of the transformational power of both generative and agentic AI. And I love the fact that we're seeing the truth that's over time, which is that disabled people are often early adopters of technology and key innovators. It's frankly because we are like at our core hackers. We are solving problems and making the world work because the world's not always designed for us. So there's all of that goodness in AI. And, you know, there's ways that we're seeing it integrated into products. You know, many of us are using captions and AI-generated image descriptions and navigation. I'm a giant fan of the way AI can create plain language and multiple accessible formats of anything and how it can do it instantly, because I think that's key to unblocking information for so many, particularly those with intellectual and developmental disabilities, who frankly haven't always been well served by accessibility in the digital space. So there's a lot of excitement there. There at the same time, you know, we think about Microsoft's presidents, Brad Smith wrote a book called Tools and Weapons several years ago, really talking about technology in general. And I think that those that frame also applies to AI. There's deep concern about algorithmic bias. Are we in? Are we out? Are we appropriately represented? What are the risks? There are concerns about when is it being used? Do we have full understanding? Lots of folks have really important questions around privacy. So it's there's so much there. And we can't pretend there, oh look at that. We've got Neil on the queue for Tools and Weapons. I was gonna reach around and pull mine, but I noticed that like it's buried somewhere under all my great disability books. Somebody won't tell that to my boss, right? But I think there's like so much in the world of AI that I'm focused on two areas. One is really listening and bringing back from the disability community what are the concerns, what are the questions, what are the needs, and feeding that into the business. The other is really helping disabled people understand what's available now and what's coming so that we can benefit from it. I'm always struck by when I get outside of the Microsoft bubble, that many people don't know what they've already bought, what's built into the products that are sitting on their desk or that their employer has created. And that that not knowing is creating accessibility challenges. So if you are a neurodiverse person and you're not using your accessibility features and your focus modes and your AI co-pilot in a meeting, you might be losing some of the great productivity that supports your talent in the workplace. And it's because you didn't know it was there. So, how do we get the training and information to disabled users, to the whole ecosystem, so that we are primed to benefit from this new world?

Antonio Vieira Santos 9:49

Well, in I'm based in Ireland. I'm in the South, but uh Microsoft has two offices, have an office in Dublin, and LinkedIn is also in Dublin. So I'm very interested in from your role. How can you influence your colleagues around the world to talk about these topics and bringing the topic office as a building, their day-to-day agenda when they talk with customers, and also internally when they talk with their own workforce. So I'm interested in that, and then I have a second question that will follow on it.

Rylin Rodgers 10:19

Yeah, I love the question about sort of how do we make sure that accessibility is always included in the conversation. And, you know, there's lots of ways that we're doing that. One that is I'm super proud of and is super cool. Every employee at Microsoft is required to take accessibility training. So it's a baseline part of the culture. And really, it's about how do we work with each other as those with disabilities and those that might not identify as disabled. And how do we work with our customers knowing that the reality is that accessibility matters to everyone? So that's a nice place to start. Then we have really intentional communities throughout Microsoft, whether it's in our sales side or the work that I lead in government affairs, elevating the accessibility narrative as part of the toolkit so that people know when we're discussing everything, these are pieces and parts in the same way we're talking about security, in the same way we're talking about privacy, in the same way we're talking about innovation. So we have lots of resources. One of the things that I think is a little unique in our resources is that we try to share as many of them as possible in an open source way. So we have toolkit and toolbooks for most dimensions of how we are integrating accessibility into what we're doing. And that's part of our culture, and then impacting our supply chain and our customers and others. Is it perfect? Is it a journey that we continue to be on and figure out how we can elevate that further? Absolutely. Um, we've learned several things over time. One, the voice of leaders, really raising it up is important. We had for a long time a chief accessibility officer who's very visible, and really knowing that that's part of the company's responsibility has been critical. And then really supporting individuals, employees who have a passion for it. We all know the reality is disability touches all of us. And so we have significant numbers of employees who identify as disabled. We have many employees who identify as being in families with disabled people. Everyone lives in a community where they have connections with disability. So when you start to unpack that, it gives us lots of avenues to raising the top track.

Taking The Message To Bigger Stages

Antonio Vieira Santos 12:38

So the the second part of my question is about the external advocacy. I think everyone knows that Microsoft has a strong presence at international events. We also know that many events that touch our community, everyone knows everyone when they are in the room. So, how can we expand the conversation to other events, you know, technology events, events where we talk not only about technology of today, but technology of the future?

Accessibility Tools As Productivity

Rylin Rodgers 13:06

I love that question because I I too, although I love my dear friends in the disability community, but showing up where you already know everyone can be a lovely social time, but it's really not about how we're moving forward. And I did a little bit of a deep dive about a year ago because I got this question from folks about how do we break through to technology conferences and other big forums that were accessibility at the table. So I went back and I searched our leadership team's talk track and narratives at these large international events, or Satya Natella was, you know, speaking on behalf of Microsoft. And really, the reality is that we are there and we are talking about it, that we're pointing out how you know one of the lead stories was about our part, our GitHub, which is a part of Microsoft, and how the ability to do accessible code under AI and how does that work, and how does that work with disabled coders? We are that's coming up very frequently in our external talk track. I think where I'm aware that the bridge is that the disability community isn't in those rooms. So they're not hearing what the broader community is. So there's a bit of uh circles of we need to get there. And when the conversation's happening, but the usual spot suspects aren't hearing it, they don't know the conversation's happening. So, how do we break through all of that? Is some of the work we have left to do.

Building Inclusive AI By Default

Neil Milliken 14:27

Thank you. To follow on from that, I I observed this too. I think that there's then the issue of and it is really important to have the the corporate leaders talking about disability inclusion and accessibility. But it's also important not just for a disabled community to be sat in the room hearing it, but to be there actually delivering some of this message as well. So I think that that's an area where tech companies in general need to need to do more. So I'm not sort of targeting Microsoft with that comment. I think it's a it's a broad comment for the whole of the industry. And then also I think when you were talking about tooling, in my previous job, I'd done some work looking at what the tooling was and doing analytics based upon the inbuilt tools. And what we find is from some of the stuff we'd done that there were huge numbers of people using accessibility tools, even if they didn't associate them with accessibility or disability. And I think that and I hope that we'll be able to bring some of that information to light and make people more aware of just how commonly used these tools are, because the more the CIOs understand that these are things that are enablers of the entire organization, the more likely they are to want to educate the workforce about these things. Yes, they're accessibility tools, but they're also productivity tools, and nothing excites them more than savings and the bottom line. So I think that there's definitely some collaborative work to be done there, you know, as you say, unpacking what's already in the box and making people aware. Final question about stuff that's with within the box, and that's that's around AI and agentic AI, has tremendous power, but it also has tremendous challenges as well in terms of variability and reliability and accuracy. So I think that expert users and experts know how to frame a question well, and as a result of that, they're able to get good results. How do you think not yeah, it stuff can be built into the system in a way that enables non-expert users to get those results that return accessible content, you know, good depictions of people with disabilities in images that are generated that I'm throwing you a bone here. So, how do you think that that can be built into the sort of the system prompts rather than requiring end users as not experts, so that the masses, when they're using AI, generate content that's accessible and inclusive?

Megaprompts, Standards, And Data

Rylin Rodgers 17:13

Yeah, there's a lot there. Every question is a lot there. So a couple things. One is that we are seeing and learning about the value of adding in disability mega prompts into the models for safety. So we published in our safety guidance prompts that could be used for each model that drive sort of better response around disability and safety. And that, and I love that it came out as a safety guidance and not sending somewhere else because it really lays out if you're gonna design a new tool, if you're gonna launch a new bot, if you add in these pieces of a megaprompt, you're gonna get a more accessible response. So that's one piece. But then there's also the piece you mentioned, sort of the visual representation. But in both visual and text representation, which people started to interact with the very early chat models, you would see some things that were bad and upsetting around bias related to disability and how disability was reflected. And you would see just total misses. And you see some of that in how we use AI and captions, for example. You would totally miss clarity for non-typical speech, which is often a feature of disability. And so those pieces require intervention on the model side and really working with our engineer teams to make sure that we're pulling in the correct information so that we're not reinforcing negative stereotypes. We're reflecting the world as it is, which is that disabled people are, as it turns out, amazing and capable of everything and every role and are living in every community. So it's not a stereotyped view of what a person with a disability looks like, but more holistic. And then similar, how do we get the right data to get better responses related to how disability interacts with a system, whether it's speech or text? So I think there's those pieces continue to be part of the work. But I also really loved your call out of sort of a sophisticated or super user, because I think there's also a place in this where we all have a responsibility around education and training for people with disabilities, back to that reality that we know that we are often the early adopters. And so really helping to drive what should be in the model, to drive those questions, to be raising those concerns, and then to be sharing how do we get the best results? How do we make sure that we are empowering people with a prompt to get to language literacy that matches who they are and what they need? How do we empower people with a prompt to support their settings so that they can have the right level of structure and focus? And those pieces are about training and supporting the broader world.

Ten-Year Outlook For Inclusion

Neil Milliken 20:11

Just quick follow-up about the sort of mega prompt, right? Because I was at an event with friends, the IAAP EU event in Dublin a few weeks ago, and there was a discussion about vibe coding and AI coding and how how difficult it was to make it accessible. And then I was saying, well, it's really, you know, it's really problematic because you know the most of the websites that uh AI is trained on are inaccessible. And I was thinking, hold on a second. The W3C's guidelines, there's clear success criteria, does GitHub repos. This is you know, we're we're we're we're throwing up our hands and saying it's too difficult when actually this should be stuff that's in the mega promises, you know, as a s as a starting point. So I th I think that people still have a fairly limited understanding of what's possible with within AI and what's also partly the responsibility of the makers and distributors of AI tools to build into their systems. So so that was more of a comment than uh than a than a than a question, but I really wanted to follow up on that. And I know Deborah does have a question for you.

Debra Ruh 21:28

And I think my question leads right from where you were going. But when you look in the future with your uh crystal ball, what do you think in 10 years, what's it gonna look like for inclusion of people with disabilities and accessibility if society gets it right?

Rylin Rodgers 21:42

A couple things. I've been annoyed 20 years about the reality that websites still are mostly like use your statistic, 90% inaccessible. I think that ends. Um, and it probably ends in two ways: one, that designing and such now. Can be created with a megaprompt around compliance and those pieces to prevent bad online accessibility. And then the other truth is that AI will unblock the fact that many of them might never get fixed, but AI will give you an immediate workaround. So that's pretty cool. I think that AI is and will change what work looks like. And there's a possible real power in that for disabled people who are really ahead of the curve at thinking about what work looks like and what do we do to bring our human talents to the table? Does that make me like not at all worried about changes in jobs and economy for AI? No. But does it make me think there is a lane here where we could really move forward unblocking disabled talent? And wow, the world could really benefit. So I get super excited about that. I'm also excited about the ability to move a little bit beyond the history of what digital accessibility looks like. We've done a fair amount of work on regulations and guidance and standards that support access for certain types of disabilities. We have not accelerated at the same level for the vast diversity of what disability is. AI can change that. And that's exciting. That's exciting to think about whose access needs haven't ever been met before and what can we do there to make the digital and really frankly the physical world more accessible across the spectrum of disability. And I also think about it that it really is back to Neil, your point about that it's a productivity tool, that those types of things where we're going to meet the needs of more people are going to be experienced as good design and, you know, really positive ways to interface. And yes, they're going to help some critical folks that we are not yet reaching the each of, but they're going to make the experience better for all of us.

Antonio Vieira Santos 24:30

So, Riley, and I I noticed that we both study sociology. So following that, I would like to know from to what advice focusing on people who are looking to find careers in the modern workplace as they are today, and facing the challenge that we have in bringing new and younger talent to the workforce, no, with the challenge that they is also bringing. What advice would you would you give to your younger self in order to be able to find an opportunity in today, in today's technology company?

Rylin Rodgers 25:06

Wow, my younger self did not accept any advice. So there was that problem. But I do think there's a couple of things that I think about as positives for younger talent, young disabled leaders, people who have mentored me through their experience that are critical at this moment. I think the reality that it is possible now to sort of know who you are and what tools and resources you need to be the most effective. And claim that and know how to get it really changes the playing field. And I love that about young disabled people. They are so clearly like out about who they are and very clear about what they need to be successful. And I think that's particularly powerful in this environment. I also think that one of the things that's serving us all well is this generational change from the idea that, you know, I have X, Y, or Z dream job and I'm going to go get it, to the idea of I'm going to look for the next opportunity that matches my talents and matches my interests, and then go to the next opportunity after that. So the idea that we've sort of blown up the idea about a clear career path to being really more focused on what are our talents, what are our learnings, what are our growth, and where do we go next in that piece isn't is matches where the economy's going, how jobs are happening. And disabled people are really key to doing that well. And then I think the other piece that's helpful is a real acknowledgement of the rate of change, how fast all of this is happening, and knowing that what I have in my toolkit today is actually gonna get better six months from now versus a year from now, and being committed to continually learning so that I'm sort of at the tip and part of that waves of what's gonna come next.

Pace Of Change And Cognitive Load

Neil Milliken 27:14

Thank you for that answer. And we're coming very quickly to the close of our time here. I I hear you about the constant pace of change, and you said something about the commitment to learning. I think that yes, we we kind of are forced to have to commit to learning because of the pace of change of technology, but I think that there's also an element of that change being exhausting and putting a level of cognitive load or burden on the community, and especially when you've got people with cognitive disabilities and the older population. The way that that change is handled is exceptionally important in terms of ensuring that we bring people along with us on that learning journey.

Rylin Rodgers 28:04

Yeah, I feel that exhaustion thing very clearly. I think it is absolutely about the wave's technology change and the changes in economies, but there's a lot of things going on in this world, and it's a lot of information to take in. It can feel scary. I work in the political domain. I think somebody uses the term frothy to discuss geopolitics. I don't know what the right word is, but it's a lot. It's all a lot. And so really thinking about what are we going to do with that overload? What's the responsibility for innovation and innovators to think about how that information is shared, how training looks like, how, you know, discoverability is accelerated so that people have ease of access to information. And then how do we push for raising in the regulatory space those safeguards that make it possible for people to navigate? So there's no one solution to how tiring it is. I mean, I've tried getting a good night's sleep, but that's not cutting it. So I think we all have a role to play, and there are multiple levers that we need to push to make sure that this goes well.

Neil Milliken 29:22

Thank you. And thank you for this entire conversation. It's been it's been a joy. I also need to thank our friends at Amazon for helping keep this on air. And really, it's been a great pleasure to interview you today, Ryan. Thank you very much.

Rylin Rodgers 29:35

Thank you for the conversation.