How WelcoMe Lets Guests Share Access Needs Before Arrival

A power wheelchair user reaches the gangway on a dream cruise, looks down, and realises there is no safe way off the ship. Everyone cares. Nobody knows what to do. That single moment captures the real accessibility crisis: not a shortage of good intentions, but a shortage of systems that make accessible service repeatable, calm, and consistent. 

We sit down with Gavin Lee, founder of WelcoMe, and Mike Clapper of Able2Global to unpack how accessibility can move from awkward last-minute improvisation to something you handle the same way you handle any other guest preference. We talk about why disabled people end up accepting subpar service, why brands hide behind compliance instead of focusing on customer experience, and why hyper-personalization cannot stop at marketing. Welcome’s approach is practical: let people share access and communication needs before they arrive, directly through a venue website or inside booking platform integration, with the guest in control of what they disclose. 

We also dig into the execution layer that most organisations miss: staff training. Gavin explains the forgetting curve and why one-off training fails, then shares a lightweight, gamified weekly approach that keeps disability inclusion top of mind without turning it into a checkbox exercise. Mike brings the business case for inclusive hospitality in the United States, showing why accessible travel is both a human issue and a revenue issue, and why the market is far bigger than most leaders assume. 

If you care about accessibility technology, hospitality accessibility, and building an accessible guest experience that feels normal instead of exceptional, this conversation will give you a clear model and a few uncomfortable truths. Subscribe, share this with a leader who owns customer experience, and leave a review telling us where you want to see “access needs before arrival” become the standard.

Transcript

Neil Milliken (00:00)
Hello and Welcome to AXSChat. I'm really thrilled. I usually say delighted, but I'm thrilled to Welcome back Gavin Neat. Gavin's been on AXSChat a few times, but not for a number of years. So Gavin's the the founder of Welcome. And Gavin has brought along Mike Clapper. So Mike, WelcoMe. Sorry, couldn't help myself. We're delighted to have you on. And

Mike Clapper (00:20)
Thank you.

Neil Milliken (00:24)
We we're delighted to hear about the progress that you've been making over the last few years because I mean I've been following what you've been doing on on LinkedIn, we've spoken and so on, but I think that, you know, we often feature people with good ideas on access chat and they don't always, you know, make it. And sometimes even if they deserve to make it, people run out of steam and and have to say,

Credit to you, Gavin, you've got some staying power. yeah. So so you've you've you've you've stuck with it to, you know, and it's like that sort of little thing that you see in the motivational pictures of the person turning back in the mine when they're about two foot away from digging the hitting the vein of diamonds. Well you've stuck with it and you've you've struck the vein and you've you've now got WelcoMe into

gavin (00:51)
I've got serious amounts of steam.

Mike Clapper (00:54)
huh.

Neil Milliken (01:16)
lots of different places and are really getting some traction. So congratulations to you. But but maybe let's sort of wheel it back a little bit because not everyone will know who you are. And can you tell our audience who you are and what WelcoMe is?

gavin (01:32)
Very happy to. And to stretch your analogy about the coal face, I think I knew that I was going to die at the coal face rather than turn back before I hit that scene. And I think the true stoic entrepreneur who truly believes in what they're doing and is all fired up in behind what they're doing will just keep going. There is a fantastic movie called Gattaca where the two brothers are swimming and they both get out.

and that the imperfect brother always gets beaten by the perfect brother. They get to a certain point and the imperfect brother always swims back. And one day his brother, beats his brother and he says to his brother, he how did you possibly beat me? I'm the perfect male. And he said, cause I didn't leave anything to swim back. And I always, when I hear that story, when I think of that story, I think that's what it takes. And I can only bow in front of the amazing disabled people that have

led the world before me on inclusion who never turned back, who just kept going. So yeah, I am just following in their footsteps to a certain extent.

Neil Milliken (02:37)
little bit about WelcoMe and and and what you're doing for the the disabled community would be great.

gavin (02:45)
Yeah. So, WelcoMe is a system that I recognize was needed a long time ago. And it was a way for disabled people to communicate with venues before they arrive. And that is a very, very, very broad remit because venues covers everywhere, everywhere where people meet you and have a service to provide. I needed to find a way for disabled people to communicate with them. And, I started this particular quest in 2012.

using a lot of the knowledge I had from years working as a guide dog mobility instructor. And ultimately it became a digital tool, which was initially an app that you downloaded. It then became a web app. And now it is slowly becoming an integratable system that integrates into booking platforms. So when somebody's booking to go somewhere, they can express need, be that physical or communicative need before they arrive. And importantly,

massively importantly, that triggers awareness at the venue. And I think that's the key point here. It's not just a passive tool that says somebody's arriving. It says this person is arriving and this is how they want to interact with you or they want you to interact with them. And it wasn't of its time. It was ahead of its time. People have said that to me before, but it's definitely of its time now. The hyper personalization of disabled people's needs is something that is

Massive in society is a massive need both commercially and socially and that's what WelcoMe does that's how I've done it and it's been in the UK for UK and Ireland Republic of Ireland for the last few years but a young chap contacted me recently having seen what I do on on LinkedIn and said This why is this not in the United States of America? This needs to be in the United States of America and I've had that from a few people in the United States for a while

and other parts of the world. But ultimately, entrepreneurs need champions and the champions are the ones that pull you towards them. So Mike pulled me towards him and wouldn't let go. So that's why I've invited him along today because I want him to share his journey as well as not just mine.

Neil Milliken (04:49)
So Mike, now that we've had the introduction, please tell us a bit more about how you held Gavin closely and didn't let him no you're facetious. Tell us more about about your your organisation, what you do and why Welcome was so attractive, other than the fact that Gavin's a strikingly handsome guy.

Mike Clapper (05:08)
Yeah. Yeah, Gavin. It's it's the Hulk Hogan look. I if you're if you're listening, you can't see it, but it looks like Hulk Hogan and that just really attracted I'm disasing. no, so my my journey started a few years ago. Not not as long as as Gavin's. but I'm an avid

Traveler, always have been. Traveled for business and for pleasure. but things kind of came to a head when I was on a cruise about four years ago. it was my 40th birthday, my wife took me on this amazing cruise, and ironically, we went from the UK and landed in Iceland eventually. So we got to Iceland and we're ready to get off to explore Reykjavik for today.

And realized that they didn't have the necessary gangway equipment to get my power wheelchair off the ship. And that day we were required to get off. The Icelandic government was coming on and doing some kind of sweep. So everyone had to get off that day. and we got to the gangway and I looked down. There was no way my chair was gonna fit, and it had spikes all the way down it.

For snow and ice. Now, mind you, this was July, right? So there was no snow and ice that day, but that's just the gang weighted they they had prepared. So, long story short, it it took them 24 hours to figure out a solution to get me off the ship. And that day I realized something that kind of stuck with me. Everyone cared, but nobody knew what to do.

The problem isn't empathy. A lot of people care. The problem was execution. And so I was kind of in this like part of my life as well where I was debating what to do next. I spent 20 years in the medical device and medical technology sector, almost 20 years, and I was debating what to do next, and I literally went back that day.

And said something has to change. And so that's where AbleTwo Global came into play. I realized that that I had to help people, specific hospitality brands execute better on guest experience. And so that's kind of where things started for me, and then started doing a lot of basically connecting on LinkedIn, and I met Gavin.

Through doing that, I realized I was commenting on his posts, he was commenting on mine, and realized that he had basically a system, an o an an operating system to handle the backbone of what I wanted to do from in advising capacity. And so that's how we got connected.

Neil Milliken (07:52)
Fantastic. Thank you, Mike. I know Deborah had had a question.

Debra Ruh (07:55)
Yes, and and also we learned it when we went on air that Mike and I are both in Virginia, right down the road from each other. So definitely a small world. But I I have known, of course, about what you're doing, Gavin, for a long time. And I I've always really appreciated to me, and I mean this very complimentary, the simple, the simple cleverness of it, because sometimes people can be so innovative that.

they make their products very difficult to use. And one thing that I like about what you've done is you're really improving communications for a lot of different types of human beings, humans with different lived experience with disabilities, but there's also value to what you're doing to people over a certain age that, you know, z it that need the extra communication. So I know that a lot of just speaking about it from the US for a second, there's a lot of

a lot of groups, a lot of vendors, a lot of organizations. They are, as Mike said, they they really do care. They do want to do the right thing. But there's a lot of prog there's a lot of problems with implementation. And I'll just give you one quick example, Gavin, because years ago I was talking to an agency, a transportation agency in the Commonwealth of Virginia where Mike and I both live. And they were telling me a story about how their bus schedules

were not accessible to people that were blind. And so what they did was they spent $25,000 to make their bus schedule accept accessible to Braille. So it was it it, you know, it was Braille. And when I heard it, I it made me so sad for them because bus schedules change sometimes, you know, daily. And so you something like Braille is it's solid. I you you can't change it. And really at the time there was some very simple

in a very inexpensive things that they could have done to be fully accessible. And I told them about it at the time, but so i I think a lot of people do want to do it, but they really get stuck in the implementation and getting it right. So I was just wondering if you could just tell the audience a little bit more about what WelcoMe does because I think it does so much as far as really allowing businesses to really have good conversations with their customers.

Which I don't think you know, most brands would think that's one of the most important things they're doing. So can you just explain it a little bit? Because we have a lot of accessibility and compliance in the United States. But to me yours is a little bit different from that. I I believe.

gavin (10:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, very much

so. So I think just to your earlier point around what happens when people get it wrong. In my experience, business wants to get it right. The challenge we've got is that the first feeling, and it's an understandable feeling, is anger when something goes wrong. So we say, what is wrong? What is wrong? This is what's wrong. This is what's wrong. And very seldom do we say, why is it wrong? And I think you need to get through the anger to get to the

Why is it wrong? And once you've got to the why, the anger can dissipate at that point because, or at least sort of calm down a little bit because you will, because that's quite challenging. That's difficult. I have a hidden condition. How could they possibly know about my hidden condition? And once you start embracing the why, you then can move on to the how. And the how is, is then a collaborative feature between the person who said what's wrong.

the person who's saying why it's wrong and the person who's saying how can we fix it. And when those three get together, there's much more chance of actually fixing it. We live in a social media world where probably there is a little bit too much what. There's a little bit too much what. And a lot of the advocates and charities and organizations and governmental organizations, they want to record the what. They don't necessarily need to have the why. And they certainly never get the funding to go through to the how.

And what Wellcome did was it through the ability of putting it all together, we came up with the how. And the how was initially it was having an app that you downloaded, you looked for venues, a little bit like Deliveroo or one of these food models where you look at the restaurants that are on the app and then you decide to go there or eat there. Well, Wellcome was a little bit like that to start with. And then we realized that, and this is since I was last on AXSChat many moons ago, we then moved away from that model and we went into a web.

So instead of having to download you just went to a website you put in a profile. It's all free It's all totally free you put in a profile and we even changed that recently. So you're not saying What's wrong with you in inverted commas? You're saying how best somebody can help you? If you have a food allergy if you have specific needs when it comes to personal emergency evacuation plans, whatever it might be so you fill in your profile and And and then you can look for the venues now

Antonio Vieira Santos (12:31)
Fiannuala CW or Fiannuala CW.

gavin (12:36)
Because we're a web app, it means we can now integrate into the venue itself. So people don't need to know about Welcome. They go to the website of the venue they want to go to. They click on the Accessibility button, probably the top left is where it should be. Everybody take note, that's where it should be. And they click on the Accessibility button and it says, if you're coming into this particular venue, here is WelcoMe. Let's introduce you to WelcoMe. This is a way of you sharing your access and communication needs in advance to as much or as little.

degree as you want. You could even put in that, want to be ignored, because that's absolutely cool as well. It's total choice. It's all about choice. So once we've done that and integrated into websites, we then started integrating into booking platforms. And this is the OTR system, not the booking.com and the Expedus of this world, who are massive and maybe aren't that well connected to the end destination, but the OTRs, which are a little bit more personalized and directly to connect you to a hospitality. And Michael, get on to talk to that about.

about that, but once you realize you can get into booking platforms, this system can then scale into dental practices. You can imagine how many of those there are around the world. Doctor surgeries, vet practices, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, MSP constituency offices, job interviews, pretty much anywhere, ferry travel, airline travel, rail travel. Anywhere there is a booking platform, you can specify how you want them

to interact with you. And that isn't just do stuff to disabled people, it's the disabled person dictating how they want you to do it to them or for them. And the other thing that's massively important in WelcoMe is that you don't have to be disabled to use it. You don't have to prove disability. So somebody who's just feeling anxious is enough for them to go, well, I'm not going to go there and spend money if I'm feeling this anxious. But what if somebody new had anxiety and when I arrived was actually prepared to meet that need?

And what if I shared that with them? And what if that empowered me to be in control of the relationship when I got there? And that's been our journey to this booking platform integration, but with the other ones available as well. So in any environment, WelcoMe can provide that information. And it helps the staff member who feels much more confident and relaxed and empowered in interacting and delivering a service. There's so much to it. There is so much to it, but I've only got limited time.

Antonio Vieira Santos (14:51)
So Mike, how do you plan to bring the valuable proposition to the United States?

Mike Clapper (14:58)
Yeah. So in terms of what I do with Able to Global, I really lead with the the business case. I think that far too many people in the United States think that the disability community is small, we don't have spending power, and you know, it's not worth the the the the weight of of you know retrofitting a building or or or all these things just to to capture a small market when an actual

It's a hundred billion dollar market per year just in disabled travel spend here in the United States. And so that's something that I discovered after my cruise ship incident was: hey, there's a tangible business market here that that can be tapped into and wants and needs to be served as well. So it's not just this kind of like overly capitalistic, you know, greedy thing.

when you look at some of the data, ninety-six percent of disabled travelers say their needs weren't met at a hotel. I can't imagine any other sector in the world where you would have a four percent essentially approval rating and get away with it.

And so that's really where I I come at it. I I say, look, here's the business business case. There are things we can do to help you serve this underserved market while also doing good for your business. and the bottom line, the ROI. So that's how I I really approach it. When it comes to what I'm doing with Gavin, we had a a very productive meeting yesterday, for instance. The whole meeting was about hyper

personalization, like you mentioned a minute ago. They're trying to do that for all of their guests, not just disabled guests. So it fits right in with their business strategy as well. So it's just it makes, you know, perfect sense.

Antonio Vieira Santos (16:49)
So you plan to start with your hospitality industry? Is there a particular area that you are focused right now?

Mike Clapper (16:56)
Yes. Yeah. So I love to travel, always have. I love the hospitality industry. and so that that's my main focus is is serving hotels and cruise lines at this time. so that's that's what I'm doing with Able to Global and again using the WelcoMe platform in in those use cases. Yeah.

Debra Ruh (17:18)
Mike, I I just want to make a comment about what you were saying, because that is an argument I've heard made a lot in the United States and other countries, that, you know, these brands are leaving, you know, millions, and sometimes I hear other letters, billions, but of money on the table because they're not including the disability community. And by the way, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I want to add a nuance to that because I I've had a lot of brands push back on that.

And say, well, I don't know what you're talking about. I actually do have customers with disabilities. So I think that really what the is happening, and this is something that to me, as somebody that was formerly a programmer, when I was when I was programming things for a very large bank, I really wanted everybody to access that program because it was at the benefit to my brand. But the reality was.

Part of the community couldn't, or they could only do part of it. And so we people with disabilities are still banking. And as you said, Mike, they're still traveling. They might get stuck on a cruise ship for 24 hours and not be able to get off, which is ridiculous. They might break the wheelchair, you know, which is happening too often. And so it's not that the disability community isn't being included, it is, but it's we're not being included in ways that really work for us.

And I think that goes back to what you were saying, Gavin and Mike, both about super personalization and stuff. ⁓ I I was just on a another event and we were talking about, you know, including people in war-torn areas. And the reality is we in society know how to make everything fully accessible, digitally and physically. Period. Done. End of conversation. We just choose, for whatever reason in society, to not do it and not make it a priority. And so I think.

Mike Clapper (18:40)
Yeah.

Debra Ruh (19:02)
One thing that the disability community has to start doing is making sure we're using the language that really makes sense. Because yeah, you are including us, we are sort of included, but the reality is all that money that you're spending to upsell me, for example. Well, you can't do that to me because I can barely get the basic needs I need from you as a bank, as somebody with transportation, as housing, as so I think the conversation is.

Mike Clapper (19:12)
Right.

Debra Ruh (19:29)
You know, I think the conversation needs to shift and move. That's one reason why I created the disability mirror to encourage the disability community to actually look at ourselves to see if we're including ourselves. But I I just think that it's I agree with everything you're saying, Mike. It's gotta be about the the brand and making sits to the brand. But I also am really ti I I really want society to start pushing back and really expecting brands to include all of us. And we can call it super.

Mike Clapper (19:46)
Mm.

Debra Ruh (19:58)
personalization, Gavin and Mike, but the reality is I should be able to shop with you regardless if it's digital or physically. And I need you to have the solutions and to understand I'm a human. This is a human experience. So just wanted to also say that. Gavin, I don't know if you want to comment or Mike.

gavin (20:17)
Yeah, definitely. Go on.

Mike Clapper (20:18)
No, I was just gonna say really quickly,

that you're absolutely correct. and I think that far too often, Gavin said it perfectly a few minutes ago, we get so stuck with the ha the how or or the what, sorry, that we leave the the how on the the table. And so if you look at the disability community, like you said with the disability mirror.

Sometimes I feel like when when we're sitting in in rooms having these kind of conversations, we're just preaching to the choir, but we never get to the solution part of things. And that's where Gavin and I both come in. We we saw a need and we we we came up with a solution to try to

To fix this in such a way that we can, yes, do well for the brand, but also empower disabled people to have more and more access all the time and have the kind of service that we all deserve, right? If everything is hyper-personalized, why isn't it for us at this point? I mean, that's where we're we're getting with technology, right? Everything is catered to us. Our social media feed.

is catered to us. the the ads that we see on T V are catered to us. So we need to make sure we're not left out of that conversation one hundred percent.

Neil Milliken (21:33)
Yeah. Great great points and go go go on, Gavin.

gavin (21:33)
Yeah, and I'll, sorry.

Yeah, so there was something that when we launched the original WelcoMe, it was all about the hyper personalization. It was all about, I let you know that I have a particular need, you learn about that particular need in a general sense, as well as how I need it. And that led us down a path of talking about a chap who was born in 18, goodness me, 19, or 17 something, a chap called Professor Ebbinghaus. And he came up with a thing called the forgetting curve.

And the forgetting curve is once you're taught something, you remember it for 24 hours and then you've lost 70 % of what you were taught. And most people who are involved in staff training, they teach and then expect things to remain. But of course they don't. And the original WelcoMe was such that if somebody walked through the door who was disabled and used WelcoMe, that would trigger the training that somebody had had in the past. But what we've actually added in with the system now is a training tool within the service.

that just remind staff whether they're getting disabled visitors or not. So once a week they might get five questions around disability that triggers, they just answer multiple choice questions and instantly know whether they got it right or wrong. And if they get it right, they get well done, you're absolutely awesome. And if they get it wrong, they get a, well, you're actually wrong on this occasion, but here's the right answer. And then the following week they get another five questions. And it's a little bit like Wordle. We have gamified it to the extent where all through the year, every single week,

staff members who are on board with the platform get training, which doesn't feel like training. It's gamified and they're just constantly learning. And it's meant that as WelcoMe has always been designed to, it's meant that it's not just about the individual, it's about staff members learning about the needs of everybody and having empathy. I one chap who was at Curry's PC, Curry's PLC down in Cork, of all places where Antonio is, and he was the manager.

And he'd just learned about aphasia. And he said, he said like, so he was in the city center where his branch of curries was. And it was right next to a Wetherspoons. And he said, people are always coming through that door and looking drunk. And there's a very good chance that they are drunk. He says, but I've just learned about aphasia. And now I approach people as if they might have a condition like aphasia. I don't approach them like they're drunk with a frown on my face. And that was because a lady said she wanted to go in and find an air fryer.

And she had aphasia and wanted him to know about aphasia. And then he went, I now know about aphasia. So we were doing that in job training constantly. And he changed his attitude towards disability in general. And that's to your point about we want to go everywhere. We don't want to have to say that we're coming. Of course, I say I'm going to a restaurant. So why not take the opportunity if you're a disabled person to say, when I turn up at your restaurant, I do have a guide dog. You do know what that means, don't you? Here's the information you need.

in the back end of our service. if you're booking anyway, why not just say you need a particular service? Because then it avoids the discrimination in the moment. Or having to explain it when you should be thinking about that girl that you've taken out for a date or wherever it might be instead of actually having to go, yeah, no, I really don't want to be parked outside with my wheelchair. Thanks, I want to be in that seat there. I'm not the one by the toilet. I want to be over there, whatever it might be. So yeah, lots of reasons why it works.

Mike Clapper (24:29)
Mm.

Neil Milliken (24:53)
So I really like the point you you you made about the the forgetting curve. Having you know worked in large organizations where we're we were doing lots of tech support, we would train the the service desks, but you know what ends up happening is because they're not getting that reinforcement, because they're not encountering customers with disabilities all the time, and because these are you know environments where

you get thousands of calls and lots and lots of different operators, there's not that level of familiarity and reinforcement necessary for people to remain com confident with this stuff. So then you sort of default back to pushing everything to the specialists. But specialists can't scale. And so I think what you're doing here is is scaling the knowledge and the confidence to f enable people to be included. So that

So that it's not just always pushing it let's push it back to the specialist team. So so then if you're lucky enough to get hold of the specialist team, you're gonna get a good experience, but you're gonna wait longer. You're not getting you're not getting the same experience and the same immediacy of of service that you would otherwise. So I think that what you're doing there is is really is really great.

I also wanted to like just touch on the point that Mike made about sort of w what kind of industry could get away with the success metrics of four percent of their customer base. And it and it that really that really struck home. I I think that, you know, that that's a a really valid question to ask and a really good f framing of it. because

you know, everybody's looking at how can we improve? It's like, well if your metrics are that bad and you know then then something's got to be something's got to be awry. But I think it then goes to Deborah's point and that's that actually the community has learned to accept subpar service. You know, sometimes when we get to the point where we're really angry and get r you get did complete denial of service, then you get the response. But but we've learned as a community to accept a subpar service.

Mike Clapper (26:45)
Yes.

Neil Milliken (26:56)
We've come to expect that second class service and because it's kind of good enough 'cause we're kind of half in the room, but not fully. and I think that that's partly why they can get away with that four percent ⁓ you know w where a yeah.

gavin (27:08)
Yeah. No, I think disabled people need to

expect the same poor level of service that everybody else gets. And I think that's part of the problem as well, is a two tier. I get bad service and disabled people get worse service. They should all get bad service and then realize that that's perfect equality. We're all getting bad service. The truth is that it's the consistency in service that needs to improve. And that means the metrics have to go from 79 % to 80%.

Neil Milliken (27:31)
Yes.

gavin (27:35)
across everybody so that we're all receiving the same level of service. Nobody's at 100%. It can't be. It's impossible. But let's aim for it by raising all the boats in the port rather than just the one or two of them.

Neil Milliken (27:49)
I th I think that's a that's that's a perfect point to end on. I just need to thank our our friends Amazon for helping keep access chat on air. remind people of where they can find you. So yes, Gavin Neat and Mike Clapper both on LinkedIn, go find them. give us your URLs, guys. Where where can people find your websites?

gavin (27:52)
No, no,

Well-co.me and you can play that again, cause I get so used to saying it. Well-co.me. Yeah.

Neil Milliken (28:16)
Yes. Well hyphen co dot me. Yes.

So it looks like WelcoMe, but it's yes. Yep. Okay.

gavin (28:21)
That's the website, wel-co.me. ⁓

And please bear in mind, once you go to that page, if you go into all the right, right down to the bottom, it's got Ask Venue. And you can actually ask the venues directly through our templated system. You can write to the venue using our template and say, want you to have this. And we are now live anywhere in the world. So if you were living in San Paolo, you can request it. It takes about 24 hours to set a venue up. Not saying we can do it in San Paolo that quickly.

But anywhere in the United States, anywhere in South Africa, anywhere in Australia, if you go through that system, you can actually say, want this. If we had 100 people saying, I want it in Ikea, tell me Ikea is not going to say no. It's not going to happen. People power. There are billions of us.

Neil Milliken (29:07)
Yes. Excellent. Thank you. And Mike, your website?

Mike Clapper (29:07)
Yes.

Yeah, and for me it's the the consulting arm of what I do is abletoglobal.com. That's able the number two global dot com. And then if you want to follow kind of my journey as I talk about what I'm doing, what I'm learning, inclusion your lab dot com. That's inclusion and then E R at the end lab dot com. We've got some really exciting announcements coming up on that as well.

so it would be great to have people following both the consulting arm and then also kind of the the think tank side of what I'm doing as well. I'm really excited about that.

Neil Milliken (29:48)
Wonderful.

Wonderful. So thanks thanks very much guys. It's been a pleasure to speak to you.

gavin (29:53)
No Scotland, no party.

Mike Clapper (29:54)
Likewise.

Thank you for having us on.